are we being ripped off or what/ (1 Viewer)

[geoff1947]

All Oil comes out off a hole in the ground (Basically) and from that they make our diesel etc
So why is fuel so expensive in the UK --We know that answer to that, don't we>!!!

Filled up yesterday at Roscoff for Euro 1.07 per litre.
Haven't seen the prices here yet but it's April Fool's day tomorrow and it goes up by 1 p tomorrow Some joke eh.

 

[American Dream]

All Oil comes out off a hole in the ground (Basically) and from that they make our diesel etc
So why is fuel so expensive in the UK --We know that answer to that, don't we>!!!

Filled up yesterday at Roscoff for Euro 1.07 per litre.
Haven't seen the prices here yet but it's April Fool's day tomorrow and it goes up by 1 p tomorrow Some joke eh.

Hi Geoff....

It's the British Mentality to moan and do nothing about it....

Something others milk to the Max.

And definately NO joke...:Angry:

 

[geoff1947]

Hi Geoff....

It's the British Mentality to moan and do nothing about it....

Something others milk to the Max.

And definately NO joke...:Angry:

any suggestions?? lets all go abroad en masse and see the drop in revenue!

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[American Dream]

any suggestions?? lets all go abroad en masse and see the drop in revenue!

Thought about it many a time.....

What with the incessant taxation by the chancellor on fuel...

Even the road blocks and protests on fuel prices/duty have (unexplainedly) stopped....

Any Ideas Why?

I've heard one or two rumours...

 

[GJH]

any suggestions?? lets all go abroad en masse and see the drop in revenue!

Here's a suggestion for anyone who is really interested.

Come up with a practical alternative taxation system which will suit the differences between the UK and continental Europe or an argument why the UK system should be totally harmonised with what the continental European countries want.

Graham

 

[pappajohn]

Even the road blocks and protests on fuel prices/duty have (unexplainedly) stopped....

Any Ideas Why?

I've heard one or two rumours...

i can think of one very good reason......'cos they don't work.

have any protests ever resulted in a major decrease in the price of fuel.

and if they did, it wouldn't be for long before the price increased again.

the chancellors lost billions in tobacco revenue and it has to come from somewhere else, and where better than stuff people rely on every day.

he doesn't put regular increases on the price of dog leads or pool balls cos they are minority items.

petrol isnt a minority item.

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[American Dream]

i can think of one very good reason......'cos they don't work.

have any protests ever resulted in a major decrease in the price of fuel.

and if they did, it wouldn't be for long before the price increased again.

the chancellors lost billions in tobacco revenue and it has to come from somewhere else, and where better than stuff people rely on every day.

he doesn't put regular increases on the price of dog leads or pool balls cos they are minority items.

petrol isnt a minority item.

Hi John,

Unfortunately fuel is a necessity and raising duty on it affects EVERYTHING we buy .

I feel sorry for the hauliers trying to compete with trucks which fill up the other side of the channel with "cheaper" fuel....How many haulage businesses are going under because they are no longer able to compete?:Sad:

This tax affects each and every one of us...Drivers and Non-drivers.....:Angry:

And what about Cider.....Don't get me going there.....I don't drink it but....Another cheaper drink being brought into line...Another "local" industry penalised.....

He borrowed all this money to "buy" us out of the recession and now WE have to pay for it....

Was it really Money well Spent and did it work?

 

[Bulletguy]

Thought about it many a time.....

What with the incessant taxation by the chancellor on fuel...

Even the road blocks and protests on fuel prices/duty have (unexplainedly) stopped....

Any Ideas Why?

In a nutshell........complacency and resignation.

Been suggestions about boycotting particular brands of fuel. Waste of time and totally ineffective. It wouldn't even be noticed.

Blockading all refineries and bringing the country to it's knees is the only way......and in blighty there is more chance of hell freezing over before that happens.

 

[Pampasgrass]

Petrol -v- Beer

Amazing isn't it that we all moan about the price of a gallon of petrol yet no one seems to bother that a pint of beer costs about
£2.50 which amounts to​

£20.00

a gallon


Cannot understand why there should be such a difference because beer is only water and hops

​

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[Snowbird]

Quite simple realy....30 years ago the chanceler would put a halfpenny on a pint of beer, every man and some of his dogs took a regular pint so good income.
Also he put a penny on a packet of ciggs, every man and most of there wives smoked so good income.
30 years later...pubs are all eating houses or closed, and smokers are treated like leppers.
He has to get the revenue from somwhere,and every houshold has at least one car.

 

[American Dream]

Amazing isn't it that we all moan about the price of a gallon of petrol yet no one seems to bother that a pint of beer costs about
£2.50 which amounts to​

£20.00

a gallon


Cannot understand why there should be such a difference because beer is only water and hops

​

A drink in the Pub is now a luxury item for us...

So I wouldn't know the price of beer...

The amount of pubs that have been hit by the smoking ban and Price of Beer...It's no longer staggering distance to out local..oh:

Has anyone else noticed that gradually everything we enjoy is being made "Socially Unacceptable" or am I being Paranoid...

 

[Peter James]

Amazing isn't it that we all moan about the price of a gallon of petrol yet no one seems to bother that a pint of beer costs about
£2.50 which amounts to​

£20.00

a gallon


Cannot understand why there should be such a difference because beer is only water and hops



​

That sounds like the price in a pub where you are paying for the surroundings. You wouldn't expect a cup of tea in a cafe to cost the same as a tea bag in a supermarket. A leaflet has come through my door from Netto with popular branded beers at a price of about £8 a gallon - packaged in 440ml cans - presumably the price would come down further if it could be sold loose from a pump like petrol.
On top of that fuel is an essential as transport costs are added to the cost of everything we buy. Alcohol is not an essential. We would probably be better off without it.

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[GJH]

Leaving aside the c*ck-up of the borrowing as a result of the recession, the fact is that - whatever the circumstances - tax revenues have to be raised from somewhere.

Fuel duty might not be the right way but what is? No scheme is going to suit everyone and complaining will solve nothing. The only way that fuel duty can be shown to be wrong is by solid evidence that another way is better.

Graham

 

[Peter James]

He has to get the revenue from somwhere.

Thatcher cut taxes for the very wealthy in 1979, and successive governments have continued on that path, making up for the loss in revenue with stealth taxes that hit everyone. The argument is that if you tax the very wealthy they can hide their assets abroad to avoid the tax, and that is probably correct. The solution is to introduce a land tax because you can't hide land. But neither of the 2 main parties have that on their agenda because they have too much to lose personally. CameraOn even wants to abolish inheritance tax before he inherits his millions. So it looks llike more stealth taxes for the poor whichever of the 2 main parties get in.

 

[GJH]

Thatcher cut taxes for the very wealthy in 1979, and successive governments have continued on that path, making up for the loss in revenue with stealth taxes that hit everyone. The argument is that if you tax the very wealthy they can hide their assets abroad to avoid the tax, and that is probably correct. The solution is to introduce a land tax because you can't hide land. But neither of the 2 main parties have that on their agenda because they have too much to lose personally. CameraOn even wants to abolish inheritance tax before he inherits his millions. So it looks llike more stealth taxes for the poor whichever of the 2 main parties get in.

OK then Peter. Presumably your land tax will be a national tax on top of the existing Council Tax based on land values.
How much would your land tax bring in?
How much would that allow you to reduce other taxes?
How would you ensure that the tax was borne only by the "very wealthy" and not passed on in (stealthy) rent rises to tenants?

Graham

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[Peter James]

OK then Peter. Presumably your land tax will be a national tax on top of the existing Council Tax based on land values.
How much would your land tax bring in?
How much would that allow you to reduce other taxes?
How would you ensure that the tax was borne only by the "very wealthy" and not passed on in (stealthy) rent rises to tenants?

Graham

A land tax would bring in whatever is necessary depending on the rate charged. Less than 10% of our land area is built on so bringing more land into productive use would increase the supply of housing, reducing homelessness and reducing prices for tenants. The poor would be better off. The big landlords like the Queen and the Church would be worse off.

PS: But I don't want to take up your time with a discussion over land tax Graham because I am sure the excellent work you do concerning motorhome parking is far more productive. You seem to be doing some good there :thumb:

 

[scotjimland]

A land tax would bring in whatever is necessary depending on the rate charged. Less than 10% of our land area is built on so bringing more land into productive use would increase the supply of housing, reducing homelessness and reducing prices for tenants. The poor would be better off. The big landlords like the Queen and the Church would be worse off.

Before that could be implemented we would need to know who owns all the land, HM Land Registry states that around 35% of all land in England and Wales is unregistered land.

 

[lebesset]

€1.07 /litre , that would be nice ; must be a refinery in the area , cheapest my way is €1.15 at the supermarket

so lets adopt the french system to raise the tax ...pay on the motorways ; a fellow motorhomer here in france tells me that the average cost per Km here in france for a group2 motorhome [ under 3.5 tonnes and under 3metres high ] is now 12p/Km [ bear in mind there are huge variations in the price /Km ]
now in the UK you can't go any distance except on motorways , so lets say you did 3,000 miles [ 5,000Km ] of motorway a year , that's not much , sounds like £600 to me
so if I am typical at 10,000 Km overall and take the current average price of diesel at 10p/litre less [ I have a dual resident family and watch it all the time ] , that would save £100 on the 1,000 litres I buy each year
please don't suggest to mr brown that he changes to the french system ...I can't afford it

addendum ; my neighbour just popped in for coffee , and I told him what I was writing about ...the price at the supermarket was up to €1.20 yesterday when he took his wife shopping , and the garage nearby was €1.28

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[Peter James]

Before that could be implemented we would need to know who owns all the land, HM Land Registry states that around 35% of all land in England and Wales is unregistered land.

Oh thats an easy one. If the tax is not paid the assets (in this case land) is seized in the same way they collect other taxes. The owners would soon appear.

 

[Peter James]

so lets adopt the french system to raise the tax ...pay on the motorways

That works for France because it is a transit country having land borders with surrounding countries, having about 5 times as many foreign vehicles on its roads as Britain does, most of them just passing through en route to other countries. So it is collecting the tolls from foreign vehicles which are just passing through. Britain has virtually no foreign vehicles just passing through (only a few to Southern Ireland) So, unlike France, we would just be collecting tolls from our own vehicles. It would be just another stealth tax on our own economy, and a very expensive tax to collect.

 

[robnchris]

taxes

MMhh some interesting reading going on here, from petrol being taxed to much to blockade the refineries.

My thoughts are pretty similar in that our bloody useless governments think the only way out of any situation is to raise taxes, historical data will show that this is just how they work.

I`m thinking now after this recession we have all been through, most probably are still it is that we are struggling to get out of it because of our manufacturing base, or lack of, lets be honest if you don`t make stuff to sell how can you earn an income.
We can`t and aren`t surviving as a service industry.

I remember when we had industry, steelworks, coal mines, car building plants, ship building etc etc.
Now it`s not like that, we buy everything from abroad, so if we don`t actually have these industries anymore where are all the people working?
The place I used to work employed a workforce of around 3000 people now there is less than 750 people work there.
We hear almost every week of large job losses and not many new jobs created so for a start there is a loss of income tax and national insurance.
I wonder what the true figure is for people being un-employed.

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[Snowbird]

As I have said before in another post,it is very easy to pick out one thing that is cheaper in another country than it is in the UK and then say "are we being ripped off".
Believe me we are definatly NOT being ripped off in the UK.
Taking ALL things into consideration the UK is still the cheapest place in the whole of Europe to live.
For example my UK registered Isuzu trooper would cost over £1000 per year to road tax here in Holland,and I filled up the wifes small car the other day, petrol is Euro 1.5 per litre at todays exchange rate thats about £1 35p.
Be thankfull that we are NOT being ripped off,its just that SOME things are moor expensive,look at the wider picture.

 

[lebesset]

that's the truth of the matter snowbird ...although I am not sure that at the moment spain isn't marginally cheaper [ not if you want british products though ]
let's have another example ...changed the motorhome last year , cost to register change of ownership ..€370 , oh plus €30 for new numberplates for my area [ compulsory ] , so €400 all told ; would have been more in big city type areas , every departement charges what it likes
what would that cost in the UK ?

 

[GJH]

A land tax would bring in whatever is necessary depending on the rate charged. Less than 10% of our land area is built on so bringing more land into productive use would increase the supply of housing, reducing homelessness and reducing prices for tenants. The poor would be better off. The big landlords like the Queen and the Church would be worse off.

PS: But I don't want to take up your time with a discussion over land tax Graham because I am sure the excellent work you do concerning motorhome parking is far more productive. You seem to be doing some good there :thumb:

Thank you Peter but please don't worry about my time. I'm genuinely interested in the detail.
"whatever is necessary depending on the rate charged" - so what is necessary to reduce other (supposedly unjust) taxes then?
"Less than 10% of our land area is built on" seems to say that farm land is not productive. Also, not practical to build on a lot of land (e.g. moors, mountains).
Again, if big landlords are faced with extra expense, how would you ensure that the tax was borne only by them and not passed on in rent rises to tenants?
How would you ensure that extra expense borne by farmers would not be passed on in higher food prices?

Graham

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[lebesset]

I think my son in laws expression sums it all up very well

if they don't have you going , they will have you coming back

 

[Peter James]

Also, not practical to build on a lot of land (e.g. moors, mountains).
Again, if big landlords are faced with extra expense, how would you ensure that the tax was borne only by them and not passed on in rent rises to tenants?

If that were always the case there would be no need to have any planning restrictions on it would they?
Most landlords will charge as much as they can get away with - the only thing that will bring down rents for the poor and homeless is by giving the landlords some competition and increasing the housing supply. Basic Supply and Demand. That is why the Establishment uses so many devious means to restrict home building, (and makes a half hearted effort to reduce illegal immigration that increases housing demand)

Competition is what keeps food prices down too. The farmers charge as much as they can. The landlords then charge the farmers as much rent as they can. The more profit there is in food production the higher farm rents rise, when there is less profit in food production the landlords have to lower their rents. Farm subsidies invariably go indirectly to the landlords like the Queen who do nothing for it. Why else would the Establishment be so keen to subsidise farming when they won't subsidise industry - coal mines for example?

Obviously the rates of land tax would need to be calculated according to the amount of money needed. These are not figures anyone could give off the top of their head.

 

[GJH]

Obviously the rates of land tax would need to be calculated according to the amount of money needed. These are not figures anyone could give off the top of their head.

Thank you Peter - just as I expected you have a headline with no substance.

You could get a job with the Daily Mail

Graham

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[Snowbird]

that's the truth of the matter snowbird ...although I am not sure that at the moment spain isn't marginally cheaper [ not if you want british products though ]
let's have another example ...changed the motorhome last year , cost to register change of ownership ..€370 , oh plus €30 for new numberplates for my area [ compulsory ] , so €400 all told ; would have been more in big city type areas , every departement charges what it likes
what would that cost in the UK ?

Would cost the price of a pair of numberplates...perhaps £25..end of.
I have just bought a small camper here in Holland to export to the UK, cost me 24 Euros for 2 pieses of cardboard export numberplates and a full days work running round different departments like a headless chicken sorting out paperwork.
If you want to buy a car in the UK,you pays ya money and drive off.
Not in Europe you dont.

 

[Wintonian]

Would cost the price of a pair of numberplates...perhaps £25..end of.
If you want to buy a car in the UK,you pays ya money and drive off.
Not in Europe you dont.

Are you not forgetting the annual VED? In France, while it costs 300 or 400 Euro to register a vehicle in your name, that is a one-off payment. There is no annual payment. And the CT (equivalent of MoT test) is every two years after the third year.

Having just registered my 18 year old Hymer that I imported from England, I was delighted to find that vehicles over ten years old only pay half the fee. So I only paid 180 Euros instead of 360.

With no road tolls in Brittany, very rarely any reason to stop once driving on our very empty roads, diesel currently at about €1.10 (just under £1) per litre, the running costs are quite modest. The diesel 4x4, the wife's petrol automatic and my 1200cc bike do add a little to our motoring costs, but that is purely voluntary!!

And, of course, it is very unusual to have to pay to park anywhere.

This is where you want to be for freedom.:thumb:

BTW, lebesset, as I am sure you know, the new plaques are now for the life of the vehicle, no longer having the department number as part of the reg number. Of course, most people will want to replace them if they move a vehicle to a different department so as to include the department number and flag on the right hand side!! I don't know if it is legal to put a sticker over the old number and flag. Must find out. There could be a nice little niche there!:Cool:

David

http://www.ldl-france.com​

 

[Snowbird]

Hi Wintonian, You say "This is where you want to be for freedom".
Well I do know first hand of living in France,courtesy of 6 years 2Rep LE.
After discharge 3 years bar resterant owner in a small village called Sorede dep 66.
France was my adopted country and I have dual nationality,but for the life of me I dont understand how you think its cheaper to live there than the UK.

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