MOT and 3.5T plus motorhomes with garage (1 Viewer)

[dave newell]

Hi guys, I was told today by our local MOT tester (they're on the same estate as us and do just about all our testing) to make sure that any motorhomes being submitted for test that are over 3500KGs MAM and have a garage are not carrying anything in the garage other than either clothes or items necessary for the day to day use of the motorhome, particularly no bikes or scooters/motorbikes. The reason was that VOSA have advised that such a setup would be construed as a commercial vehicle carrying goods and would therefore be subject to testing at a VOSA station only.

Not sure if this is accurate information, maybe GEO can throw some light on it but its something to bear in mind if you have a +3.5T motorhome with a garage that is due for an MOT. Shouldn't be too difficult to remove everything from the garage just in case:thumb:.

D.

 

[johnnerontheroad]

Just had mine MOT today a local council test centre never even looked in garage its 4.5t.

Dave

 

[pappajohn]

it appears the different gov departments cant get their act together on this subject.

over 3500kg and it will be taxed as a PRIVATE HEAVY GOODS which to me means it is a private GOODS vehicle...PRIVATE being for personal use and GOODS being the carriage of personal goods.

carry goods for reward and it becomes a goods vehicle in every sense of the word..

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[hilldweller]

particularly no bikes or scooters/motorbikes.
D.

I've certainly seen this stated before, a good while ago, maybe during my year on the dark side. The implication was that if "pulled" with a bike in the garage you would not be insured or your licence would be invalid or some such.

I think it also implied bikes in the living area.

Effing ridiculous.

 

[dave newell]

Thanks to a member of another forum the answer is pretty clear cut it would appear.

See here, top of page 8:

Link Removed

 

[buyer]

hello all, a few years ago i built a *motor home* out of an ex army troop carying coach with rear doors .I built a garage into the rear of the coach with access through the rear doors,as it was unregistered when i got it i had to mot it before it was registered, i took it to the local hgv test centre to get it classified as it was not yet a motor home at that point in time ,i didn't want to spend months of work and thousands of £ to then find i could not register it for some reason.well that bit was easy, my options where to test it as it was (as a lorry)because i had removed all rear seating,put the seats back in and test it as a bus.Or to fit it out as a motor home and test it as a LIVING VAN which is basicly a motor home with space to carry goods,or remove the garage and test as a motor home .Itested it as a lorry as it was easier.my point here is if you have a garage i think you will find you have a LIVING VAN and not a motor home and if it is over 3500kg then a ministry plate is the only legal way of getting it tested. this was 8 years ago thing s may have changed since then but I don't they have .I am old enough to know that i do not know everything and am quite prepaired to learn if anyone has an absolute answer,as i am an mot tester and told a customer recently i could not test his 7.5 tonne LIVING VAN , i have not checked with vosa ,I was only telling him what they told me when i had mine tested .Ilook forward to any further comments.bye all steve.:thumb:

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[cronkle]

This link may also be of some help:

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-mot.shtml

 

[ginge61]

they even cofuse themselves

 

[buyer]

thanks cronkle,that was a very interesting read, it is now as clear as mud, Ithink its definately time for another vodka and pepsimax(a big 1) cheers. steve.:thumb:

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[Larrynwin]

It specifically says 'NOT MOTOR CARAVANS' so no problem :thumb:

 

[Snowbird]

hello all, a few years ago i built a *motor home* out of an ex army troop carying coach with rear doors .I built a garage into the rear of the coach with access through the rear doors,as it was unregistered when i got it i had to mot it before it was registered, i took it to the local hgv test centre to get it classified as it was not yet a motor home at that point in time ,i didn't want to spend months of work and thousands of £ to then find i could not register it for some reason.well that bit was easy, my options where to test it as it was (as a lorry)because i had removed all rear seating,put the seats back in and test it as a bus.Or to fit it out as a motor home and test it as a LIVING VAN which is basicly a motor home with space to carry goods,or remove the garage and test as a motor home .Itested it as a lorry as it was easier.my point here is if you have a garage i think you will find you have a LIVING VAN and not a motor home and if it is over 3500kg then a ministry plate is the only legal way of getting it tested. this was 8 years ago thing s may have changed since then but I don't they have .I am old enough to know that i do not know everything and am quite prepaired to learn if anyone has an absolute answer,as i am an mot tester and told a customer recently i could not test his 7.5 tonne LIVING VAN , i have not checked with vosa ,I was only telling him what they told me when i had mine tested .Ilook forward to any further comments.bye all steve.:thumb:

A few years ago the MOT station that I used at the time told me the same thing.
I changed MOT stations and no problems since.Like most testing stations its down to the examiner.One will pull you up on one thing and another on somthing else.
The problem is that they get the same money for testing a mini as they do for testing a 40 foot RV,and the RV blocks the whole garage up.

 

[dave newell]

Seems pretty clear to me, the DfT and VOSA both consider a bike or car as not being necessary for the purpose of living in the vehicle and therefore constitute goods or burden and as such the carriage of said bike or car would render the vehicle a "living van" as opposed to a motor caravan and therefore sub 3500KG MAM vehicles (but over 3000KGs MAM) would be subject to class 7 test and over 3500KGs MAM would be subject to a HGV test at a VOSA testing station.

D. And breathe

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[Geo]

Seems pretty clear to me, the DfT and VOSA both consider a bike or car as not being necessary for the purpose of living in the vehicle and therefore constitute goods or burden and as such the carriage of said bike or car would render the vehicle a "living van" as opposed to a motor caravan and therefore sub 3500KG MAM vehicles (but over 3000KGs MAM) would be subject to class 7 test and over 3500KGs MAM would be subject to a HGV test at a VOSA testing station.

D. And breathe

Correct in every detail dave
I covered this on the dark side a couple of years ago now
The implications for the tester are quite serious, Vosa may just send one in with a bike in the back and the tester is struck off (testing out of class)
there are far more serious implications for the vehicle owner incorrect licence and or insurance
If you want to see the really scary bit look closely at the regs and you will see it clearly states
Any vehicle manufactured or adapted to carry etcoh:
Is not a rear cycle/motorcycle rack----------- an adaption
so it's not just garage types is it
Geo

 

[robnchris]

bike rack

All very interesting and Dave is spot on from reading the e mails it would appear that if a motorhome carries a bike or car then it`s a goods vehicle, one question as my motorhome is under 3500kg then i`m out of it but what if I`m over 3500kg and I carry a motorbike on a rack. ?
Is the bike still classed as goods.

Christ don`t they have anything better to do than come up with these rules and regs, who in their right mind would buy a large motorhome to carry goods.
Surely if you want to carry goods you would at least buy a vehicle with some carrying capacity, not a small garage under he bed in a 28 foot motorhome.

Still if the police can pull a guy over for blowing his nose whilst stopped in a traffic queue and the appeal being over ruled so the case went to court I`m not surprised at anything.
By the way did anyone hear how that poor bloke got on.

 

[IrasciBill]

Nose Blower

. . . . .
Still if the police can pull a guy over for blowing his nose whilst stopped in a traffic queue and the appeal being over ruled so the case went to court I`m not surprised at anything.
By the way did anyone hear how that poor bloke got on.

Case was dropped - eventually! Common sense can be even slower than our MH!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8539682.stm


Regards
Bill

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[ginge61]

well in that respect most folks who carry push bikes are flouting thev law ????? or are they not goods ohh and roof boxes etc etc lol anything other than standard is breaking the law ??? i still cary my m/c on the back at certian times so thats me done ahh welll rules are made to be broken thats the french idea and a good one

 

[robnchris]

can of worms

Oh dear this could indeed be a large can of worms.

 

[dellwood33]

Handy for fishing

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[wireman]

I'm disabled and the scooter (twist and go) is neccasery for 'living' as its the only way I can get about any distance without taking the van.So.....

 

[bungy]

what about fitting an awning, sat dish, solar panel etc - where does the line get drawn on neccesary stuff for living!!

 

[Jaws]

Just wandered round to my VOSA office ( tis only about 100yds away ! )
peeps there did not know what I was on about but made a phone call.

The motorcycle or scooter would have to be registered to a third party ( as in not a family member ) and then it could POSSIBLY be construed as the vehicle being used to carry goods. However it is highly unlikely and the VOSA inspectors would use their discretion to ascertain if the motorhome was being used for commercial purposes

As the very nice chap I was put on to said..
Sir, do you have a lap top ?

Yes..

And as you mentioned, your work is connected to the internet ( I had said about running a int based motorcycle spares company hence my concern ) ..

Yes...

By the premise offered you could not legally carry your lap top in ANY vehicle unless it was insured as a business vehicle.
Same goes for anything else.


I said the info had come from an MOT station..

His response made me laugh out loud..


'So does a lot of other old tosh where people have not understood the rules properly'


I suspect this is indeed one of those cases

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[Forestboy]

Yet another to add to the list along with

A Frames & Gassing

What a load of old ********s

 

[dave newell]

Beleive what you like guys, its no skin off my nose. I spoke to the tester again today and asked why this had suddenly come up, his reply was that last week he had attended a tester's refresher course and the instructor brought this point up. It would appear they are looking more at people who convert a large van and include a "garage" area for a motocross bike or similar, often providing workshop facilities too. This is where these rules stem from but they extend to conventional factory built motorhomes with "garages". Apparently one of the other candidates said he'd done loads of motocross campers and was told forthwith to cease and desist or he would be struck off!

VOSA are apparently sending in random test vehicles with specific faults and then a VOSA inspector sits half a mile away and watches the online results being recorded, if the faults are not picked up or if a tester takes on a vehicle that he is not classified for they pounce. The tester can be struck off the tester's register there and then, the garage may well lose its testing station licence and if its part of a national chain then it too could lose testing station status for all of its garages.

Personally I couldn't give a monkey's whatsit as mine is a motorhome and carries nothing but items necessary for living in it (awning, stool to reach to fit the awning, box of pegs to fasten the awning sides down, BBQ etc) especially at MOT time but if any of you feel you'd like to challenge VOSA over this then carry on. Be warned though that if a tester refuses to test on the grounds that your vehicle is carrying goods or burden then that vehicle will be notified on the system. It will be rendered off road and unusable until you either take it to a VOSA station for testing or challenge VOSA in court, how long do you want to be without your motorhome?

D.

 

[dave newell]

I'm disabled and the scooter (twist and go) is neccasery for 'living' as its the only way I can get about any distance without taking the van.So.....

The scooter might be necessary for you to get about but it is not necessary to accomodation within the vehicle.

D.

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[wireman]

it is a neccasery part of my 'living' equipment as much as my walking stick therefore it cannot be classed as goods and if it were would 'mobility' scooter also be...since they are used for the same purpose/

 

[Geo]

Dave, you can only tell emoh:
My information came from exactly the same source (Vosa Instructers) doing my 5 year refresher at a venue miles away from your mates
Just to throw more mud into the water
your top of the dash mounted reversing screens are also a faiure I spent 2 days arguing such a decision, verdict "it stands"

Jaws name the VOSA office and IF (I doubt it) at all possible name the Vosa man who found your comments amusing
I Dare You
Geo

 

[buyer]

hi geo, i presume the dash top mounted screens fail due to being an obstruction in excess of 40 mm in zone (b),like those stupid hanging dice,magic trees etc,regards. steve.:thumb:

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[Geo]

hi geo, i presume the dash top mounted screens fail due to being an obstruction in excess of 40 mm in zone (b),like those stupid hanging dice,magic trees etc,regards. steve.:thumb:

Thats what they said along with your tom tom etc
I argued as the dash mounted screen was not on the screen and was in fact no more than the speedo hump on some dashes it should at worst be an advise
two days and 30 phone calls later----fail
I might add it was the Vosa instructer making the callsoh:
Geo

 

[Jaws]

I have absolutely NO idea who I was speaking to other than that it was at the VOSA test centre in Norwich in Helsdon ( SP ? ) Rd..
I might be able to find out as I wee while ago I had to take a few different Chinese motorcycles up there for SVA ( that an associate had imported with a view to bringing them in by the container load. )..
I got to know a couple of the chaps up there.. not well enough to know names but well enough to say hello and chat to if you know what I mean

I shall try and take a wander again tomorrow and see if I can get more info

This really does snap of the same sort of thing as HID lights on motorcycles though..

They are illegal as bike lights are not self levelling, yet no police officer will report you for using them and no MOT station will fail a bike for having them fitted..

 

[dave newell]

Dave, you can only tell emoh:
My information came from exactly the same source (Vosa Instructers) doing my 5 year refresher at a venue miles away from your mates
Just to throw more mud into the water
your top of the dash mounted reversing screens are also a faiure I spent 2 days arguing such a decision, verdict "it stands"

Jaws name the VOSA office and IF (I doubt it) at all possible name the Vosa man who found your comments amusing
I Dare You
Geo

Hi Geo, you're right, we can only tell 'em. On the reversing monitor issue does it matter where it is placed? I usually fit them just inside of the drivers A pillar as they don't generally obscure a part of the windscreen swept by the wipers down there. My chap has done quite a few for me now and hasn't commented once when the monitor has been in such a position.

D.

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