What motorhome to carry m/bike? (1 Viewer)

[Hawcara]

Currently have a caravan, but seriously looking at motorhome, having hired ones abroad.
We would like to put a scooter about 100cc on the back, but weight limit is a problem. I would not want to buy a van, get the rack etc and then have to sell parts because I was overloaded.
Therefore, could members of the forum suggest makes or vans that they use that would be suitable for carrying a scooter on the back? There are only 2 of us and we would not want a tag axle.
Thank you

 

[snailsontour]

The key things to look for are a short overhang behind the back axle and a high payload. It is very easy to be overloaded. A 100cc scooter weighing in the region of 120kg plus the weight of a motorcycle rack acting as a lever 1 - 2 metres behind the back axle can add around 225kg or more to the rear axle load.

The formula is D = A x C ÷ B
Where D is the back axle increased load in kg
A is the weight of the scooter and rack in kgs
B is the wheelbase of the vehicle in cms
C is the distance from the scooter to the front axle in cms.

Our van is based on a Iveco 35-12 and has a payload of 1100kg (max 4200kg). A recent check weigh with our bike (Yamaha Serow 225 - dry weight 120kg) on, plus a lot of wine and beer (just back from two months in France), full water and fuel tanks. left us just 100kg to spare without Sue or I in it - and I weigh 100kg! Both axle loads were within the maximum but 1100kg had vanished.

I cannot recommend any particular van but I would recommend rear wheel drive - much better for load carrying and getting off slippery fields.

Hope this helps
Bob

 

[robnchris]

axle weights.

Hi guys,

Not really certain how this works, so could do with a little help.
We have to weigh bridge certificates, one for each axle, front being 1360 kg. the rear 2060kg.

Now then have just fitted a motorbike rack (not certain how much rack weighs) to carry our CG 125 honda which weighs about 110kg.
Now then the rack adds about 4 ft to he van, we are having the AS air suspension fitted next week but we wondered were we stood re carrying weights.

Regards Rob and Chris.

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[hilldweller]

Hi guys,

Not really certain how this works, so could do with a little help.
We have to weigh bridge certificates, one for each axle, front being 1360 kg. the rear 2060kg.

Now then have just fitted a motorbike rack (not certain how much rack weighs) to carry our CG 125 honda which weighs about 110kg.
Now then the rack adds about 4 ft to he van, we are having the AS air suspension fitted next week but we wondered were we stood re carrying weights.

Regards Rob and Chris.

We need some numbers:

wheelbase
overhang from rear wheel to centre of bike

You have a lever from the front wheel to the bike pressing down on the rear axle.

(wheelbase+overhang) * bike weight = torque created by bike

weight on back axle = torque / wheelbase.

Just as Mr Snails said but shown differently.

 

[robnchris]

motor bike rack

We need some numbers:

wheelbase
overhang from rear wheel to centre of bike

You have a lever from the front wheel to the bike pressing down on the rear axle.

(wheelbase+overhang) * bike weight = torque created by bike

weight on back axle = torque / wheelbase.

Just as Mr Snails said but shown differently.

Ok, bike weighs 100kg, rack weighs 45kg. overhang from back alxle is 2600mm.
Wheelbase is 3600mm.

 

[hilldweller]

Ok, bike weighs 100kg, rack weighs 45kg. overhang from back alxle is 2600mm.
Wheelbase is 3600mm.

So the bike creates a torque of 145 * ( 2600 + 3600 ) = 899000.

Effect on rear axle = 899000 / 3600 = 249kg. Frightening eh !

There is a second calculation because the bike is also trying to lift the front by pivoting around the read axle.

torque = 2600 * 145 = 377000

Effect on front = 377000 / 3600 = 104kg.

Now, can you carry this legally and have some spare for the wine ?

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[robnchris]

phew

So the bike creates a torque of 145 * ( 2600 + 3600 ) = 899000.

Effect on rear axle = 899000 / 3600 = 249kg. Frightening eh !

There is a second calculation because the bike is also trying to lift the front by pivoting around the read axle.

torque = 2600 * 145 = 377000

Effect on front = 377000 / 3600 = 104kg.

Now, can you carry this legally and have some spare for the wine ?

Thanks for that Brian, lots of big numbers, 249kg swinging about at the back of the truck is scary, hence the reason I`m having the as air suspension fitted next week.
So one more question, just how many kg`s can I carry, can you explain how after arriving at the figure of 249kg we have decided that this is within the legal limit.
What is my legal limit?

Cheers Rob.

 

[olley]

Hi legal limit will be the maximum weight the axles can take, and the maximum weight the motorhome can be. Often 3500kg or 3850kg, these weights will all be on the plate which may be somewhere around the front doors. Also your licence may restrict you.

Olley

 

[hilldweller]

Thanks for that Brian, lots of big numbers, 249kg swinging about at the back of the truck is scary, hence the reason I`m having the as air suspension fitted next week.
So one more question, just how many kg`s can I carry, can you explain how after arriving at the figure of 249kg we have decided that this is within the legal limit.
What is my legal limit?

Cheers Rob.

The big numbers were only because I worked in mm, they could have been tiny numbers if I'd worked km. You are not swinging 249kg at the back, you are adding 249kg to the weight on the back axle.

Air suspension does not make any difference to the legalities, just the handling. As Olley said the legalities are written on the loading plate somewhere.

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[dazzer]

Stop messing around

Just buy an RV and have done with it :thumb:

 

[Hawcara]

Eze Tow

Thank you for all your replies.
When looking at motorhomes, the payload weight does not seem a lot to play with.
However, I wonder if those of you who use scooters etc have any experience of Eze Tow? It seems a sort of trailer that sits on a tow bar and does not have any of the probs of reversing a short axle trailer.

 

[olley]

Stop messing around

Just buy an RV and have done with it :thumb:

Not necessarily so Dazzer, mine with a bike on the back was up to the limit on the rear axle, and feels light on the front, it also makes the "Tail wagging the dog" effect much worse, in fact I flogged the easilifter to John.

Olley

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[barryd]

Hi

This is what I used for calculating if I could put a rack and scooter on. The other members have pretty much explained the formula but I find the pic helps.

Link Removed

I bought a 1996 Swift Kontiki and this was my calcuations and results.

Before the rack and scooter I went to a weigh bridge with the van and-

Total Vehicle weight = 3040
Front Axle = 1600
Rear = 1440

According to the plates under the bonnet the max weights allowed were as follows

Total Max vehicle weight = 3400
Front Axle = 1650
Rear = 1750

So we are already somewhere near. Using the formulas on the site and in Practical Motorhome I calculated the following

The overhang is 1700mm and the wheelbase is 4300. The scooter and rack will weigh 150kg, IF you divide 1700mm by 4300 and x that by the weight of the scooter (150) that = 59KG extra weight on top of the rack and scooter which means a total extra weight of 209kg on the back axle which would take it to 1649kg.

This however also reduces the front load down to 1541kg leaving a spare 109 kg at the front and 101 at the back or 210 KG to play with.

I got it all fitted and was under the weight on the back but not by much. I compensated for the weight being taken off the front by moving as much as possible forward such as folding mountain bikes etc in the Luton.

It can be done but I think the only true way to do it properly is to take the van with you and your passengers and as much stuff as possible to a weighbridge, then do the calculation.

A word of warning though. My back axle has just gone in today for a replacment. Some of the leaf springs inside it started to snap last summer and its now 2 inches lower than it should be. Apparently though this is chiefly down to the fact that it was never serviced (and its 14 years old). They must be greased every year or I think 5000 miles. Its going to cost me £2200 but I will be getting and upgraded Axle which should compensate better for the extra weight.

Cant be without my scooter though and I wouldnt want a trailer!

 

[Wildman]

Therefore, could members of the forum suggest makes or vans that they use that would be suitable for carrying a scooter on the back? There are only 2 of us and we would not want a tag axle.
Thank you

you could be in luck my van (see avatar) is a 1981 Mercedes coachbuilt. it currently weighs in at 4.1t fully loaded. Has a plated weight of 5 ton so 900kilos going spare.
I am in Ilfracombe N. Devon. feel free to pm me for phone number if you want to come and view. Am looking for £6000.

have for sale a 1981 Mercedes 508D coachbuilt motorhome.
under 100K miles on the clock (engine good for 650K miles at least.) These engines are legend doesn't smoke and never misses a beat.
Rear wheel drive (twin wheels) means getting stuck on wet grass a thing of the past.
The entire rollingstock has been rebuilt. new brake pipes (copper), master and slave cyls. Rear shoes and drums replaced, new wheel bearings, springs, spring hanger bushes. All bills available.
U - Shaped lounge makes 6ft 6" x 5ft bed
central Dinette makes a single bed
Overcab had 2 x fore and aft full size single berths. plus a shorter one in the middle, or could be rearranged as a huge double.
There are two full length wardrobes and massive cupboards all around with sufficient storage for fulltiming.
3 way fridge freezer 4 ring hob and grill.
TV ant for Digital and Analogue with signal amp works great on freeveiw sand analogue (where you still have a signal)
50W solar panel on the leisure battery and 5W in the engine batteries. Kepp all batteries fully charged all winter no problem.
Radio cassette player in cab and second alongside the bed.
240V inverter with double socket
plenty of other 240V sockets for use on hookup.
hookup cable.
Gas locker takes 2 x 13kg bottles, currently has 1 x 13kg and 1 x 10kg. there is a 2 way gas changeover valve.
External locker currently holds a generator (not sold with it) there is a gas fire and also an eberspatcher blown air diesel heater (needs fuel line cleaning).
So there you go a lot of van for £6000 only selling because new van arrives soon.
Veiwing in Ilfracombe, Devon, could deliver. Long MOT (End Sept) and taxed. Ready to go to France or wherever.

 

[barryd]

Sounds like an absolute bargain Wildman. Dont think you will have to wait long to sell that. I wonder if modern vans have got a bit lardy then as your payload is huge in comparison. When I get my new Axle on my Konitiki it will (in theory) be a similar payload, loads to play with. Its 14 years old so again and older van?

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[Autoquest]

Thank you for all your replies.
When looking at motorhomes, the payload weight does not seem a lot to play with.
However, I wonder if those of you who use scooters etc have any experience of Eze Tow? It seems a sort of trailer that sits on a tow bar and does not have any of the probs of reversing a short axle trailer.

I have a 268kg Suzuki Burgman and I fully intend to get one of the Exetow trailers but the guy who makes them is having a few health problems at the moment and can't do much before April - and their not cheap....

The trailer has two tow hitches and is attached outboard on either side of the motorhome, this arrangement, coupled with some castor wheels make reversing problems a thing of the past. A third of the weight however, is transmitted to the rear axle via noseweight

 

[Kon tiki]

I have an Adria Izola plated at 3850 kgs with a payload of over 850 kgs. I carry a Yamaha YBR 125 (weight around 105 kgs) in the garage. Didn't fancy putting a bike on the back so decided on a garage model with the transverse bed but know some people don't like the high bed.

 

[ronald4874]

Scooter on the rear

I have carried a scooter on the back of my 'custom built luton' van for a number of years. The cals described earlier are correct and therefore the trick is to manage the balance of the vehicle, ie to make use of the potential load on the front axle.
In my case I removed the 'luton' bed ( about 20kg) and used that area for some load normally carried over the rear axle leaving the scooter to play a major role in that area. Several visits to the weigh bridge verified the distribution of the total load. With the front axle loaded to a greater degree the van became much more stability when driving whereas before the front tended to bounce around and generally grip could be a problem.
Good luck on your trips and enjoy the flexibility that the scooter gives to touring generally especially on the continent where scooters are more widely accepted. We have never used the scooter on the back of the van in the UK, too risky travelling around on it.
Ron.

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[scran]

garage

buy a van with a garage to put a small motorbike in just what we have done we just boughta honda 90 on monday and are doing just that

 

[rainbow chasers]

Just make sure the bike is as light as possible - the tow ball will shear before the weight on the back becomes a problem. The ball is not made for weight being put on top, but for pulling weight. If i recall - the ball will cope with 146kg. This is alot less with bolt on/swan neck types.

Most small bikes will be fine though - but do check the axle load. Some vehicles 'near the limit' will not handle is very well at all!

 

[gogocrosby]

Many of the ramps and carriers with ramps can weigh in at 30/40 Kg. We bought a spectacle type carrier, only weighs 8Kg but you have to man hanldle the bike into it.

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[olley]

Hi
A word of warning though. My back axle has just gone in today for a replacment. Some of the leaf springs inside it started to snap last summer and its now 2 inches lower than it should be. Apparently though this is chiefly down to the fact that it was never serviced (and its 14 years old). They must be greased every year or I think 5000 miles. Its going to cost me £2200 but I will be getting and upgraded Axle which should compensate better for the extra weight.

Cant be without my scooter though and I wouldnt want a trailer!

Why do you need a replacement back axle? You just need new leaf springs, not a big job, couple of hours a side at the most.

Olley

 

[barryd]

Why do you need a replacement back axle? You just need new leaf springs, not a big job, couple of hours a side at the most.

Olley

The earlier Alko Axles where like a sealed unit with the springs running right through the Axle and if they go you have to replace the whole axle. The garage looked into this and both me and the garage spoke to Alko (as well as several posts on the forums). The new axle has a higher payload and uses torsion bars which can be easily replaced if they go. A couple of guys with similar age vans have had the same issue. Its a shame as the forums have been invaluable at pointing out essential maintenance put somehow greasing the Axle every year I missed and they reckon age, the weight and mainly the fact it hadnt been serviced for god knows how long has wrecked it.

 

[olley]

Hi Barry, sorry thought you had a conventional setup. :Blush:

Olley

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[barryd]

Hi Barry, sorry thought you had a conventional setup. :Blush:

Olley

Yes it took me a while to get my head around it. At least with the new axle if a bar breaks it can be replaced. An issue with the older Alko vans it seems and an expensive one!