Tyres Again (1 Viewer)

[Braunston]

Hi,

On the subject of tyres, and whether to use camping tyres or just general tyres,

Can someone give me some advice regarding if my handbook states that the original equipment are "Camping Tyres" and the pressures are 5 bar and 5.5 bar respectively, if I changed from this written specification, would it constitute a modification to the vehicle and as such could it put me in a difficult position with the authorities because I had modified the standard vehicle and perhaps more importantly with my insurance company if I hadn't notified them of the modification.

Most camping tyres can use a higher pressure than their equivalent van tyre, and that raises another issue, if I decided to run with lower pressures than specified in the handbook because the tyres I have replaced the originals with can't operate at the specified pressures, how do I get this information over to the new owners that it would now be dangerous to follow the specification detailed in the manufactures handbook.

Your thoughts on the subject would be welcome

 

[pappajohn]

that is one hell of a pressure.....80psi !!!!

my ducato has a plate on the door post stating 5.5bar but that is the absolute max for the tyres..not the van.
i run at 62psi rear and 60 front....3.85t kontiki

this doesnt help with your question but i thought it worth a mention.


ps...my twin axle 3.5t trailer has 195/50/13(commercial) tyres and ifor williams recommend.....90psi.

 

[GIBLA53]

Google michelin camping tyres gives some interesting threads from "the others" from what I know and have read the camping tyre is built to take the higher tyre loads over and above a van type tyre so can operate at 5-5.5 bar =80 psi. , the van type usually operate at about 60psi. I dont believe in wasting money , but tyres are not an area i like to skimp on and if fitted as o/e. strongly advocate you maintain the camping type Al

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[madbluemad]

Google michelin camping tyres gives some interesting threads from "the others" from what I know and have read the camping tyre is built to take the higher tyre loads over and above a van type tyre so can operate at 5-5.5 bar =80 psi. , the van type usually operate at about 60psi. I dont believe in wasting money , but tyres are not an area i like to skimp on and if fitted as o/e. strongly advocate you maintain the camping type Al

There was somebody posting on the forum last week that they coudnt get the Michelin Camping Tyre.

I had one and it blew out in a week. I have heard similar stories elswhere

Jim

 

[haganap]

good observation Braunston.

Can't answer with factual facts only heresay im afraid.

Firstly, Im on camping tyres and know when I asked a similar question on another well known forum (not the dark side) about switching to ordinary van tyres, it opened up a lively 12 page debate without getting an answer.

So in theory you would/could be right. Any ammunition to prevent an insurer spending 40k out then sure they might like to haggle down that road. However, just how mechanically minded is the average punter meant to be? Im sure in a court of law this might fall in to a category of not expected to know, not ignorance but above and beyond what is expected.

As far as I know there is no law that states you have to have camping tyres, but I am sure (call geo) there must be something written about appropriate tyres for the vehicle, if that includes tyre pressures then sure, but I have never seen them tested in an mot? do they? I suppose if you turn up with 4 flat tyres you could expect to fail. :Confused:

Me? I will always contiune with camping tyres despite what some of the self proclaimed experts say. If the van comes with them at new when they are expensive, then surely there is a reason for that otherwise why would they not some cheap continentals on?

I run my pressures at 68psi all round.

 

[Peter James]

If the van comes with them at new when they are expensive.

Are they expensive to the vehicle manufacturers?

As I understand it, the vehicle manufacturers fit whatever suitable good quality tyres they can buy cheapest. The tyre manufacturer will be offering the cheapest deal on whatever tyres he has a glut of in stock. My Citroen Relay commercial van came with Michelin Agilis 'Camping' tyres fitted, even though it was not sold as a camping vehicle but a standard commercial van. I cannot imagine Citroen paying extra for camping tyres to fit on commercial vans. So perhaps Michelin has a glut of camping tyres because they are having trouble convincing enough motor homers they are worth the extra. They are not going to shift the surplus stock by cutting the retail price or everyone will expect camping tyres for the same price as white van man tyres. So they just cut the price of camping tyres to vehicle manufacturers to shift the surplus stock, and maintain the high price of camping tyres to retailers.

(I don't know what the recommended normal tyre pressures should be because the handbook refers you to a plate on the door and there isn't one. But the tyres, like all the others I have seen, have the maximum pressure moulded on the side - 76psi.)

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[haganap]

Are they expensive to the vehicle manufacturers?

As I understand it, the vehicle manufacturers fit whatever suitable good quality tyres they can buy cheapest. The tyre manufacturer will be offering the cheapest deal on whatever tyres he has a glut of in stock. My Citroen Relay commercial van came with Michelin Agilis 'Camping' tyres fitted, even though it was not sold as a camping vehicle but a standard commercial van. I cannot imagine Citroen paying extra for camping tyres to fit on commercial vans. So perhaps Michelin has a glut of camping tyres because they are having trouble convincing enough motor homers they are worth the extra. They are not going to shift the surplus stock by cutting the retail price or everyone will expect camping tyres for the same price as white van man tyres. So they just cut the price of camping tyres to vehicle manufacturers to shift the surplus stock, and maintain the high price of camping tyres to retailers.

(I don't know what the recommended normal tyre pressures should be because the handbook refers you to a plate on the door and there isn't one. But the tyres, like all the others I have seen, have the maximum pressure moulded on the side - 76psi.)

Well I dont know for sure as I am no expert, but i will say this. Motorhomes come shod with camping tyres which ARE more expensive than ordinary van tyres and that can not be argued. They are different. Why would michelin give them xc camping tyres when they can give them ordinary Michelin van tyres at a cost that is less. As for a glut of XC camping tyres? are you haveing a laugh most depots cant get enough of them, its a joke trying to get some in some parts of the country as there just isnt enough. The fact is people on this and other forums are always complaining about the lack of availabilty.

 

[Peter James]

Motorhomes come shod with camping tyres which ARE more expensive than ordinary van tyres and that can not be argued.

Camping tyres are more expensive to retailers is what can not be argued. We don't know whether they are more expensive to vehicle manufacturers do we?

If Camping tyres are more expensive to vehicle manufacturers why has my new commercial Citroen Relay van come fitted with them?

Retailers and wholesalers will naturally prefer to sell what they have in stock. If they are scarce at some retailers all that means is that the wholesalers don't keep many in stock. Presumably because they are expensive and don't sell very fast.

If camping tyres are scarce how is it my commercial van as come fitted with them?

 

[EJB]

Camping tyres are specially developed and have heavier than normal side walls to allow for long periods of 'standing still'!!!
The current/latest Michelin Agilis Campers on my MH, 3500Kg, are recommended at 50PSI front and 55 rear.....by Michelin.

There are cheap options but not on my vehicle.

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[haganap]

Peter,,

Last post = Don't believe the 5 year rule,

Now this one your basically saying no need for camping tyres,ordinary will do.

Personally?

I will continue to air on the side of caution and go with what I have alwys been led to believe. When tyres are concerned I cut no corners.
Incidently, when I uprated my van weight, one of the questions the company asked was concerning tyres, and if it was shod with CAMPING TYRES, they insisted it had to be so that must surely tell you something.

Dangerous thing is tyre discussions, people read and believe, best in my opinion they read and believe the over cautious. Sorry this thread has gone way off topic.

 

[Peter James]

, when I uprated my van weight, one of the questions the company asked was concerning tyres, and if it was shod with CAMPING TYRES, they insisted it had to be so that must surely tell you something.

May I ask which 'company' that was?

 

[Braunston]

Hi,

Thanks for all of your inputs but its really the legal position that I would like to address, if you change from what is shown in your handbook, both in terms of the type i.e. "camping" and the pressures 5 bar and 5.5 bar are you in affect modifying your vehicle.

If you are, should you tell your insurance company as they want to know about any modifications and how do you get on with the written word in your handbook regarding the pressures if the tyres you have fitted can't now take the pressure stated.

Thanks

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[pappajohn]

Hi,

Thanks for all of your inputs but its really the legal position that I would like to address, if you change from what is shown in your handbook, both in terms of the type i.e. "camping" and the pressures 5 bar and 5.5 bar are you in affect modifying your vehicle.

If you are, should you tell your insurance company as they want to know about any modifications and how do you get on with the written word in your handbook regarding the pressures if the tyres you have fitted can't now take the pressure stated.

Thanks

if the tyres are the correct size, load and speed rating then you can fit what you want....no-one has a monopoly on camping car tyres.

in effect, what you are asking is.... do ALL tyres, no matter what on, have be replaced with OE tyres and nothing else for insurance purposes.

as already stated camping car tyres are specially designed to withstand a different environment to commercial tyres......the long periods when the van is stood in one position and the relatively longer driving times....white van man wont usually be driving 400miles a day on his way to spain.

personally, i would say the handbook itself is altering the vehicle makers spec by recommending the tyres max allowable pressure with dis-regard to actual running weight.
the best thing to do is contact the tyre manufacturer with your axle weights and they will advise on the correct pressure, usually via email, so you have a writen record if the insurance company accuse you of altering the manufacturers spec.

 

[Braunston]

Hi,

I am not saying you have to use the exact same make of tyres as came with the vehicle, what I am asking is if "camping tyres" were shown fitted in the handbook then should they only be replaced with "camping tyres" Quote "camping car tyres are specially designed to withstand a different environment to commercial tyres" so it seems you are suggesting that we should only replace camping tyres with camping tyres as no other tyres are going to match that specification.

To the best of my knowledge only 3 companies make specific camping variant tyres Michelin, Continental, and Pirelli

Taking the above into account, I would suggest anyone who doesn't fit camping tyres, if that is what is specified in the vehicle handbook, are modifying the vehicle, and if my assumption is correct you could be jeopardizing your insurance if they haven't been informed.

As for the tyre pressures those are what have been quoted in the vehicle manufacturers handbook and if anything went wrong because of using those pressures with the specified tyres, then I would think in the eyes of the law and your insurance companies you would be in the clear.

If however you had replaced the original specification camping tyres with standard van tyres and were then running the vehicle at lower pressures than specified in the vehicle handbook there could be questions raised especially if one of your tyres failed, and while I know we could produce an email from the tyre manufacturers stating that the pressures were correct for the axle weight at the time of raising the query, I feel you could still have a problem with your insurance.

The insurance could argue that the standard van tyres you have had fitted had been put to unnecessary strain and stress as "Commercial tyres are not specially designed to withstand the environment that camping car tyres have to endure ". "(reversed the Quote)"

Taking the above into account I think the safest way forward would be to fit Camping Tyres where Camping tyres have been fitted by the manufacturers, as to do anything else I really think we are leaving ourselves open to possible problems

The reason I raised this question in the first place was after discussing replacement tyres with 2 major tyre manufacturers it really doesn't seem as clear as some people suggest it should be, one of the manufactuers told me they could match the weight and speed etc. but he could not recomend their van tyres to replace the camping tyres that were standard fitment, so he lost a possible sale.

I am therefore going to replace my camping tyres with 4 new camping tyres tomorrow, if the fitting bay supplier delivers them.

They have cost a little more but with the doubt that my research has revealed i honestly think the extra is worth it, if for nothing else other than piece of mind.

Thanks to everyone for their inputs, been very helpful, and I hope this helps others

Braunston

if the tyres are the correct size, load and speed rating then you can fit what you want....no-one has a monopoly on camping car tyres.

in effect, what you are asking is.... do ALL tyres, no matter what on, have be replaced with OE tyres and nothing else for insurance purposes.

as already stated camping car tyres are specially designed to withstand a different environment to commercial tyres......the long periods when the van is stood in one position and the relatively longer driving times....white van man wont usually be driving 400miles a day on his way to spain.

personally, i would say the handbook itself is altering the vehicle makers spec by recommending the tyres max allowable pressure with dis-regard to actual running weight.
the best thing to do is contact the tyre manufacturer with your axle weights and they will advise on the correct pressure, usually via email, so you have a writen record if the insurance company accuse you of altering the manufacturers spec.