Irresponsible Wild Camping at Loch Lomond (2 Viewers)

scotjimland

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Camping byelaws for bonny banks

New byelaws could prevent people from camping in certain areas on the shores of Loch Lomond.

The legislation, proposed by the Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park, is designed to tackle the impact of "irresponsible camping".

a "common misconception" that the right to camp by the road was enshrined in law by the Land Reform Act.

"The act only has anything to say about wild camping, not roadside camping," she said.

"Roadside camping would not be an issue if people were not misbehaving - it's how people are doing it.

"In certain areas, this type of action maybe the only way this can be brought under control."

But there are fears the legislation could be used to "harass" backpackers who are camping responsibly.

Outdoors blogger Darren Christie said: "I think that the park authorities need to adopt a scheme that will allow them to clamp down on these 'informal campers' that are causing the damage, while also allowing legitimate backpackers to still enjoy their hobby."

Mr Christie said he also hoped the national park would adopt a "common sense" approach.

"Backpackers are not the problem here, and it is usually pretty obvious who is a backpacker and who isn't," he added.

The consultation will run to 3 May 2010.



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GJH

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Once again the irresponsible spoil things for the responsible.

I have every sympathy for the Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park Authority, who have to look after the interests of everyone not just those who wish to camp (whether responsibly or not).

Graham
 

AuldCodger

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This has been on the cards for some time,
Used to boat on Loch Lomond until a couple of years ago, the main reason we stopped visiting had nothing to do with the new Park Authority, our best of days usually included a bbq on some island or a secluded shore beach but gradually the amount of filth left behind by some put us off.
The authority try their best and organise clean ups etc. but with the number of morons taking to the outdoors they are fighting against it.
As is usual the minority are going to ruin things for the majority.
Now don't get me started on the speed restrictions on the water !!!
:Angry:

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scotjimland

scotjimland

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Once again the irresponsible spoil things for the responsible.

Graham

It's no wonder that many councils are reluctant to set up facilities for MHs when they see or read about how some people behave.

Only last year when I was visiting Loch Lomond I witnessed a guy, parked up at the loch near Balloch, dumping a cassette in the trees only yards from the shore.. it was only Jan's intervention that stopped me having a word ..

The same thing has happened all along the Spanish costas, Morocco has also clamped down on wild campers .. I'm afraid it's not just a minority ..
 

Munchie

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Had a week at the CCC site at Luss Loch Lomond in October last year. The signs of those idiots were plain to see as we walked the shores. We don't wild camp but feel for the responsible people that do. Such a shame that another freedom will be lost due to those scum. :Angry:
 

GJH

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(snip)The same thing has happened all along the Spanish costas, Morocco has also clamped down on wild campers .. I'm afraid it's not just a minority ..

I fear you're right Jim. I was going to put "irresponsible few" in my earlier post but deleted the word "few" before posting.

Graham

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scotjimland

scotjimland

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I fear you're right Jim. I was going to put "irresponsible few" in my earlier post but deleted the word "few" before posting.

Graham

Anyone who is wild camping faces the problem of waste disposal.. he has to either find a public facility or dump it illegally, public toilets are few and far between in the wilds.

If there was a network of aires with proper facilities the illegal dumping would be vastly reduced, many 'wilders' in France use aires as a pit stop.

Scotland is Europe's last great wilderness, it would be a shame if motorhomes were hounded and banned from over nighting in the wild... but it will happen if aires are not provided.
 

Peter James

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Apart from chemical toilets, I am just wondering how they decide who has dropped all this litter

Car drivers, van drivers, motorhome drivers, lorry drivers, ?????
 

barryd

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Maybe stricter penalties would work for littering etc but the problem would be catching them. I saw a program the other week where the cops were on Lomond catching people taking drugs on the islands. Lomond is easy to get to from Glasgow and I think a lot of youths go up there, get off their faces and I guess some misbehave. As for the guy dumping a cassette in the water well you should have pushed his face in it. There is no excuse for that. Nowhere and certainly in that area is that far from a loo. Even in the far highlands you will find somewhere with a bit of planning or with a little effort dig a hole and bury it.

We will never get Aires here because we can’t be trusted to be civilized like the rest of Europe, I.e. the French.

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scotjimland

scotjimland

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Apart from chemical toilets, I am just wondering how they decide who has dropped all this litter

Car drivers, van drivers, motorhome drivers, lorry drivers, ?????

Very good point, no doubt a combination .. however, not many lorry and van/car drivers stop all night and set up camp ..

Inspectors or park rangers will more than likely have taken pictures and notes, and in all probability the local residents have complained about over nighters in the car parks and lay bys.

As in my previous post, a lack of facilities combined with an ever increasing number of motorhomes is the problem
 

GJH

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Anyone who is wild camping faces the problem of waste disposal.. he has to either find a public facility or dump it illegally, public toilets are few and far between in the wilds.

If there was a network of aires with proper facilities the illegal dumping would be vastly reduced, many 'wilders' in France use aires as a pit stop.

Scotland is Europe's last great wilderness, it would be a shame if motorhomes were hounded and banned from over nighting in the wild... but it will happen if aires are not provided.

I appreciate the sentiment but wonder how practical it would be to try to set up a network of aires in such a remote location. In towns there are often existing car parks which could be used and there are always water and sewerage facilities - but, as you say Jim, such facilities are few and far between in the wilds.

There is an argument that anyone wishing to camp off site should ensure that he is able to access a dumping point before visiting a particular area, rather than be caught out.

We will never get Aires here because we can’t be trusted to be civilized like the rest of Europe, I.e. the French.

I wonder if there is another reason - that there are simply not enough people (compared to the "motorhome population" as a whole) who actually want aire facilities in the UK. When threads like this are raised it seems that very few of us are actually interested enough to contribute to them and very, very few people come forward and say that they have made approaches to local authorities aimed at provision of aires.

Graham
 

Peter James

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local residents have complained about over nighters in the car parks and lay bys

Local residents being the campsite and hotel owners who would rather be collecting money from them?

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Loujess

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I appreciate the sentiment but wonder how practical it would be to try to set up a network of aires in such a remote location. In towns there are often existing car parks which could be used and there are always water and sewerage facilities - but, as you say Jim, such facilities are few and far between in the wilds.

There is an argument that anyone wishing to camp off site should ensure that he is able to access a dumping point before visiting a particular area, rather than be caught out.



I wonder if there is another reason - that there are simply not enough people (compared to the "motorhome population" as a whole) who actually want aire facilities in the UK. When threads like this are raised it seems that very few of us are actually interested enough to contribute to them and very, very few people come forward and say that they have made approaches to local authorities aimed at provision of aires.

Graham


Right Graham. Say no more. I will get a letter off to Leeds City Council tomorrow. If we all do it, we might be heard.
 

Douglas

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The same thing has happened all along the Spanish costas, Morocco has also clamped down on wild campers .. I'm afraid it's not just a minority ..

I have to agree with this Jim, I have witnessed some disgusting behavior.

The worst offenders, and this is from personal observation, are the French, and that amazes me because France such a clean country from what I have seen.

Doug...
 
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scotjimland

scotjimland

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Wild Camping in the National Park

Wild Camping

Camping wild is a great way to experience the spectacular scenery of the National Park, providing you act responsibly and leave the countryside as you found it.

Wild camping is permitted in the National Park under the Land Reform ( Scotland) Act 2003 as part of the public’s right of responsible access. However, this does not allow car or vehicular access to camp nor does it permit long stays that impact on the local environment.

Access rights (non-motorised) extend to wild camping. Wild camping is lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two or three nights in any one place.

You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply, but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals and by keeping well away from buildings, roads or historic structures.

Take extra care to avoid disturbing deer stalking or grouse shooting. If you wish to camp close to a house or building, seek the owner’s permission. Please note the following:

* Lighting fires - Use a stove if possible. If you must have an open fire keep it small and under control.Remove all traces before leaving. Never cut down or damage trees.
* Human waste - Bury your own toilet waste and urinate well away from open water, rivers and burns.
* Litter - Take away all of your rubbish, particularly bottles, cans and plastic. Leave your campsite as tidy as your found it.

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lufcdave7

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The warden based at the information centre Tarbet (National Parks) is a friend. I was talking with him only a few weeks ago on a tour to Scotland. He told me that Motorhomers are NOT the problem. The biggest offenders are youths from Glasgow who camp in tents, leave a real mess, (beer cans a speciality) and even leave cheap tents behind, because they can't be bothered to dismantle them. He was quick to point out that motorhomers respect his signs that ask that people take their rubbish home and not use his bins (rubbish collection being one of his biggest overheads)
I got the impression that our efforts to wild clean are being recognised.
 

chewy

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Anyone who is wild camping faces the problem of waste disposal.. he has to either find a public facility or dump it illegally, public toilets are few and far between in the wilds.

If there was a network of aires with proper facilities the illegal dumping would be vastly reduced, many 'wilders' in France use aires as a pit stop.

Scotland is Europe's last great wilderness, it would be a shame if motorhomes were hounded and banned from over nighting in the wild... but it will happen if aires are not provided.
Can't agree more ..I suppose you could say this is commonsense...
 
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scotjimland

scotjimland

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The warden based at the information centre Tarbet (National Parks) is a friend. I was talking with him only a few weeks ago on a tour to Scotland. He told me that Motorhomers are NOT the problem. The biggest offenders are youths from Glasgow who camp in tents, leave a real mess, (beer cans a speciality) and even leave cheap tents behind, because they can't be bothered to dismantle them. He was quick to point out that motorhomers respect his signs that ask that people take their rubbish home and not use his bins (rubbish collection being one of his biggest overheads)
I got the impression that our efforts to wild clean are being recognised.


That is certainly encouraging, and nowhere in the report are motorhomes mentioned, let alone singled out for special attention, however, if the new regulations are brought in it will give the Rangers the power to move on anyone stopping overnight on the highway, be it a beat up tranny van or 50k motorhome.

We used to call them hooligans, they came by train from Glasgow to Balloch, barely 30 mins away, with cheap tents and even cheaper wine.. and camped close to Balloch on the west bank, within staggering distance from the local watering holes.. I suppose nowadays they have private transport so can now reach further into the park.. hence the issue.

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AuldCodger

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Following on from my earlier post, mentioned my boating days on the Loch, motorhomers are in my opinion not a problem. Neither are backpackers,walkers, climbers and all lovers of the outdoors.
What we are all up against is (an old fashioned term) RIFF RAFF.
As has already been said Neds mainly from Glasgow do the outdoor thing, drink, drugs and anything else they care.
And a word of advice if you witness any of the aforesaid, think twice about getting involved, a lot of the big boys from the Glasgow scene party around the loch, some with boats costing over 100k, top of the range Range Rovers but at the end of the day nasty little tikes.
:Angry:
 

gypsylady

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Cassette Dumping

We are reluctant to dump in regular loos as there is usually a bit of an odour and we don't want to upset the non-motorhoming populace. BUT we like our wildcamping trips.

We found a seller on Ebay who is selling keys to gain access to the RADAR disabled loos.

Their advert uses quotes from 'govt sources' which say anyone can have one of their keys.

Purchased a shopping trolley big enough to carry the cassette and we are set.

Can pay a visit with 'our shopping', take an air freshner with us, and leave everything clean and tidy and sweet smelling.
 

robinmclaren

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i have witnessed inconsiderate and slum behavior by a few motorhomes and when passed the comments on here i remember the reply was " if you dont like your neibour move on " fine attitude until all the good places have banned us

if we cannot be considerate to the people around us

no litter
no noisy generators if can be heard by the surrounding houses
no dumping waste water or toilets except down drains

then we will all be classed and banned in the same way , we will be in a lovely quite spot next week and running from batteries , if genny required i will use at a sensible time to not upset the local community

non of us want to stay in a cest pit so do we clamp down on the idiots or just move on

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We wild camped on the car park of the boat launching area next to the sea life centre.
We asked permission at the reception and used their showers. The security patrol for the centre next door came over to our van and told us that we shouldn't be wild camping there. When I told him I had permission he was fine but said not to camp there at weekends.

We were parked by a small manmade beach/picknic area which had one overflowing bin. People kept visiting in cars and threw their rubbish in the overflowing bin rather than taking it home, this then blew onto the surrounding area. The local birds also visited the bin and threw rubbish out of it in search of food. So from what I saw motorhomes were not the problem.
 

madbluemad

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There was a news item concerning the abuse of the countryside around Loch Lomond on the telly the other week.

The problem appeared to be with younger folk camping on the side of the Loch, smoking dope, drinking to excess and generally not caring less. There was no mention of mh's.

The wardens were sailing around the Loch and moving people on because they were making a mess of the Loch. The wardens even appeard to know some of the campers because they were regulars. I dont think you could get a mh to where these guys were.

Jim
:Smile:
 
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Well that`s our 13th year & still loving it.
loch lomond

Hi,

Oh dear we were going to make Loch Lomond our first stop for a bit of wild camping on our tour around Scotland, after reading this thread think we might have to re-think and find somewhere a little less abused.
Anyone got any ideas.
Regards Rob and Chris.

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Aug 27, 2008
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Hi

I live in Stirling on the edge of the Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park. I'm on the road out into the wilder parts of Scotland either heading east on the A84, A811 or north on the A9 most weekends.

The remoteness of the parts of Scotland that we like to visit (North west) means that wild camping is a nessesity - especially in the winter - and there are no Aires up here.

We have overnighted along the A84 near Loch Lubnaig, but the place is a fair mess in the summer months with people wild camping on the shore, leaving their rubbish behind and crapping in amoungst the trees.

The Scottish Land Reform Act gave people the right to wild-camp **responsibly** in wild places - it was never intended to permit wild camping out of the back of a car by the roadside - and then leaving all their sh1t behind!

I consider wild-camping in a motorhome to be somewhat different because we have our facilities with us. We don't need to crap amoung the trees, and if you are well-off enough to be able to afford a motorhome then you are hopefully, not going to be the type who adds rubbish to an already overflowing bin, craps in the trees, or empties your bog in the lake (if you are, **shame on you!**).

My solution to this whole issue is to insist that wild camping is only done where the vehicle in question offers appropriate facilities (or the campers bring a toilet tent/portapotti) - and have the park wardens (backed up up by the police) check upon this. The local police have plenty of time to sit in cars with speed traps, so the excuse that they cannot police these wild-camping hot-spots does not wash.

I also believe that there should be a 1-night limit on stopping in these wild-camping spots - that would eliminate people needing to get their generators out - the drive would recharge the batteries. Generators are another one of my bug-bears - if you are gonna spend the weekend sat in your van watching TV and need a genny to keep things running why even bother going away?! Just fit another battery, get a decent setup to charge it on the move, or put a solar panel on the roof.

As for the rubbish issue, i'd be getting shot of *all* the dustbins in the area (its my council tax thats paying for them!), and insisting that people take it home with them (and policing this too with stiff fines for those that don't). If there's an overflowing bin, people will add to it (even decent people), if there is no bin, then maybe people will just take it home.

Its still the few that spoil it for the many, and the proximity of Loch Lomond, Loch Lubnaig & Loch Earn to major centres such as Glasgow is what creates issues.

A couple of years ago, we were canoeing up loch Earn, past all the wild campers pitched on the beach (SE shore), with rubbish all around, beers in their hands and a fire roaring at mid-day. Most were from Glasgow (easy to pick out the accent), and just making a nuisance yelling insults in our direction as we passed. Maybe the responsible amoung us should just start reporting the irresponsible to the local police complete with no plates.

Nigel
 
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Anyone who is wild camping faces the problem of waste disposal.. he has to either find a public facility or dump it illegally, public toilets are few and far between in the wilds.

If there's nowhere to dump your loo, take it home, and pour it down your own toilet! If one cassette is not enough, buy another.

We manage a week out wilding on a single 10L cassette, we just try not to use it! If we pass a public toilet, we'll do the business there rather than in the van.

If you are going to pour it (carefully) down a public toilet (as we have on one occasion), ensure that the loo either does not use a septic tank, or that the toilet fluid is 'green'. Formaldehyde really makes a mess of the process that a septic tank relies upon. As I read somewhere: 'No Elsan Blue Down The Loo!'

BTW, this was a general comment, not aimed directly at the person I quoted!!

Nigel
 
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saxon

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Just have to say that I believe someone is getting confused with the term 'Wild Camping'. As far as we are concerned, it is a location where we can enjoy superb views and total peacefulness. The thought of abusing it is abhorrent to us. We stay as long as the loo and water facilities permit and then we move to a conventional site where we PAY to clean out, fill up, and dispose responsibly of any unwanted matter. Wild Camping to the litter louts is just setting up a tent and going wild with alcohol, drugs, fires and loud music.
I must admit that there aren't too many places along the banks of Loch Lomond where I would choose to wild camp with a motorhome. That's a personal thing. Most places we have seen where the litter does seem to gather on this Loch does not permit the entry of Motorhomes - most have barriers to prevent access, or have signs indicating that there is 'No Overnight Parking'. I think I would be angry if we were made to feel unwelcome as a result of some litter louts or 'Riff Raff' as they have been called. :thumb:

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scotjimland

scotjimland

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Most places we have seen where the litter does seem to gather on this Loch does not permit the entry of Motorhomes - most have barriers to prevent access, or have signs indicating that there is 'No Overnight Parking'. I think I would be angry if we were made to feel unwelcome as a result of some litter louts or 'Riff Raff' as they have been called. :thumb:

Do the height barriers and No Overnight Parking not make it clear that MHs are not welcome by the loch side ?

This is a sore point with many motorhomers, the reason given by the authorities is that it's to keep the 'travelers' out which is IMO just an excuse, as clearly the rubbish, bon fires and loud music isn't down to MHs if they can't get access :Doh:

I agree that it's the riff raff who are mostly to blame but the proposed new regulations will have an impact on motorhomes by giving the Park Rangers powers to move them on..
 

spiritsfree

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We have travelled extensively in most parts of Scotland, generally wild parked, and have noticed an increase in litter over the years ourselves. It`s sad that this beautiful country is being spoilt by a mindless minority, however we`ve yet to see a motorhomer who has created it. Having spoken to wardens on occasions, their problem is with the "locals"...those that take the short journey from the large cities ..( Glasgow certainly being one of them ) ...and have no respect for nature or the countryside. We have experienced some, boozed up, and I guess letting their hair down. Now there`s nothing wrong with that provided the people have respect for others..but sadly that`s something that is sadly lacking. Even out in remote places we have seen rubbish that`s been so obviously tipped down embankments from what i can only presume was some sort of small lorry, it was that much.....and in some parts they have had trouble with travellers ....mainly from what we`ve seen, around the coast from Fort William to Mallaig. It`s just so sad, but maybe society is moving that way, and people only think of themselves.

Generally on our trips( that last for 4-5 weeks ) we move around, however we do make a point, (that`s been said earlier in this link ), to spend a night on a site about every 6 days or when we need to empty the loo, dump our litter, and fill up with whatever`s needed for the following 6 days. That way, we think, we leave only foot prints.
 
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scottish-vanners

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sorry to buck a old thread up :Blush:

i organised a club meet at duck bay marina a few weeks back to celebrate my clubs 1st birthday, we also arranged a spot of wild camping at sullochy bay afterwards ,
the part of duck bay we used was further down the road from the actual hotel for once it was in rather a good condition with no serious amounts of rubbish, we had a full blown oil drum bbq with loads of rubbish all collected and put in black bags and disposed of them at approriate places that were for rubbish were wild life couldnt pull them open and spread rubbish ,

when we arrived at sullochy on the east of the loch we were met with about 12 lassies having a hen night , and on the other side we were met with 3 groups of young guys rangeing from groups of 4 - 9 one group equipped with a jet ski, the girls with in a hour of our arriving and them being stoating drunk had a fight and before you knew it we had range rovers with tinted windows and a minibus with tinted windows turn up and group of young guys from the vehicles getting into a fight with another group of young guys further up teh beach towards the ccc site,

the police turned up and drove in and then drove out just as quick, the girls who were drunk started packing up well if you can call it that, and piled into several vans and cars and swerved there way out,
the next day the guys at the other side of sullochy had dissapeared leaving utter bedlam in there wake, 3 individual campsites littered with rubbish, waste (human /non human) unopened booze, and wrecked tents they couldnt be arsed taking down, as for the hen partys site they had left a similar mess behind includeing drinks, but the site further up from them had rubbish flung inside a tent and lit bbq flung inside to set fire to it, thankfully it didnt,

the park rangers as well as the forestry rangers were round at the site and approached us, when we explained what had happened they were shocked but jumped in there pick up and drove off, leaving the mess to be tidied up by our own members ,
now im glad to say i im in contact with the park authority when i organize any meets for my club, and received a email from there callender office saying how happy they had been hearing reports back about the members cleaning up, to me that is a small victory to the responsible people who use the loch, but it also highlights the policing of the waters edge by the police, rangers and council, the rangers imo should be doing a bit more i understand the lochside, it is a big place to work after but they should know by now the trouble spots, even more so sullochy as there is hikers walking the WHW right through the area it impacts badly on the tourists who walk thru and come upon these messy pitches and also the drunken people who use them, instead the authority have chosen the legislation path but i ask who is going to enforce it ?the last 3 times i have been there the police and parkys really cant be bothered doing a thing :Angry:
imo the rangers and police need there bums kicked and time they done somthing to combat it maybe having a good camper scheme or that ?

long winded and a bit of a rant sorry

jim

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