Air Guns and the UK Law (1 Viewer)

scotjimland

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Following on from Roger's thread,

should Air weapons be banned or have stricter controls ?

The Scotish parliament are discussing with a view to banning .. what do you think ?

Airguns could be banned in Scotland if law is devolved

Published Date: 23 November 2009
By Victoria Mitchell

POWERS to ban airguns are expected to be handed over from Westminster to MSPs, it emerged yesterday.
Firearms legislation is currently reserved to Westminster.

But the Scottish Government has argued that Scotland has a distinct problem with air weapons.

It was one of the recommendations of the Calman Commission review of devolution.

Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy is preparing to deliver his response to the Calman report, which made a series of recommendations on which powers should be devolved to Scot-land.

A Scotland Office spokesman said that the UK government would be setting out its re-sponse to Calman "very shortly" and that "air weapons will be dealt with as part of that".

The move has also been called for by the parents of two-year-old Andrew Morton, who died in 2005 after he was hit in the head by an airgun pellet in Easterhouse, Glasgow.

His parents, Sharon McMillan and Andy Morton, have campaigned tirelessly for a change in the law.
 

barryd

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As I said in Rogers Thread. No they dont need to be banned but some kind of registration or licence may help. Certainly kids should not be able to roam the streets with them and IMO nobody should be using a gun in a public place in a built up area. A large garden with supervision maybe but not out on the streets. Scotland has many safe open places with nobody around for miles. Get them up there with a few targets, rabbits whatever.

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scotjimland

scotjimland

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My own view is that they should be licensed, and before it is issued a purpose should be provided .. and where it will take place

ie..

1. vermin control: farm , small holding etc
2. target shooting: membership of club required
3. sport shooting: proof of permission from land owner provided.

I have several weapons and go to a local club and have permission to shoot rabbit on a local farm..
I also have third party liability insurance

jim
 
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stagman

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As I said in Rogers Thread. No they dont need to be banned but some kind of registration or licence may help. Certainly kids should not be able to roam the streets with them and IMO nobody should be using a gun in a public place in a built up area. A large garden with supervision maybe but not out on the streets. Scotland has many safe open places with nobody around for miles. Get them up there with a few targets, rabbits whatever.

But these laws already exist . They should come down harder on the ones that break these laws so that the law abiding people can get on and enjoy their sport ,
 

geoff587

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People are killed by people, a air rifle like a car, baseball bat.screwdriver, jack handle ect are all objects which have been used by people to kill others. There is no talk of banning baseball, cricket, golf or any other sport where a bat or club has been used to commit a crime.

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laneside

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Hi

Please, please remember that an air gun or any gun is just as safe as a hammer or saw or even a pair of scissors.

Please do not ban the guns ban the idiots that mis-use them

They have already deprived the sporting shooter of his hand guns and now there are more such guns in the hands of criminals, nay idiots than there has ever been.

It is a pity that anyone in possesion of an illegal gun even if they are not caught using it should be locked away for a very long period instead of smacking their hands and face and letting them carry on as before.

There are very few gun related accidents from legal gun owners and if this creates a problem then what shall we do about cars- the biggest killer of all?

I know that many will disagree with the above but we cannot get a ban imposed on everything that we disagree with- can we?
 
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5 acres that is, there you thought I was being rude :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

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stagman

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My own view is that they should be licensed, and before it is issued a purpose should be provided .. and where it will take place

ie..

1. vermin control: farm , small holding etc
2. target shooting: membership of club required
3. sport shooting: proof of permission from land owner provided.

I have several weapons and go to a local club and have permission to shoot rabbit on a local farm..
I also have third party liability insurance

jim

If you brought all these in then there would be absolutely no youngsters coming through the system . I started shooting in my back garden under supervision with a very low powered air pistol and then air rifle at the age of 15 . A youngster is very unlikely to get permission from a Farmer to learn his field craft . In many areas there are not enough gun clubs a lot have closed due to legislation .
 

barryd

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But these laws already exist . They should come down harder on the ones that break these laws so that the law abiding people can get on and enjoy their sport ,

Im not up to date on the laws about Airguns but Im pretty sure that the last two I bought a few years ago now that I didnt have to register them or get a licence. I know you do for a shotgun or rifle but dont think you do for an air weapon. Perhaps someone can clarify.

Perhaps if they are all registered and one is involved in a deliberate incident or accident when it is found to have been used illegally or irresponsibly then they may be able to bring the registrar to court. If there are more severe penelties then perhaps fewer weapons will end up in the wrong hands. There will always be a few incidents no matter what you do but a ban insnt the answer. Our gun laws I think are pretty good. Look at America!
 

hilldweller

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They have already deprived the sporting shooter of his hand guns and now there are more such guns in the hands of criminals, nay idiots than there has ever been.

I got my gun licence at 17 and was fanatical about smallbore shooting for years.

Then due to police blunders, a nutter in Scotland kills a load of kids. The rest is history.

I think Dunblane was just the excuse the authorities needed to further increase UK as a Police state, removing weapons useful when/if the population rebels. As someone else has said, it certainly did nothing for gun deaths.

Soon we will be limited to soft felt tipped pens, sharpened pencils, no way, terrorist tools.

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scotjimland

scotjimland

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Firearm offences including air guns

Link Removed

Homicides using airguns in the past ten years .. 1997 - 2008 .. Seven

Link Removed


Homicides using airguns in the past ten years .. 1997 - 2008 .. Nine
 

calculad

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Why are so many laws and regulations called for nowadays that end up punishing mostly the law abiders.
Without wishing to open a different can of worms - Height barriers
We are prevented from using car parks in so many beautiful places now because of the misdemeanours of a few.
I think a lot of it is lazy cost minimising government, both local and national.

I can see this issue going down the same route. Tightening a law that will do nothing to stop accidents or idiots.


Back on topic. I shoot rabbits with an airgun to control and eat them.
When I cross a road from one field to another I bag up the gun.
The law (which I fully support) is clear on this. An air rifle cannot be carried in public unless it is in a proper case or bag, unloaded and not cocked.
Link Removed It quotes the law here.

On the rare occasions that I have carried an air rifle in a busy public place, I have to say that since the speight of Columbine type incidents I feel extremely uncomfortable.

I do sympathise with the parents in this tragic case and know little of the circumstances, but the law is there and should be policed.
K
 

Hycon

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Firearm offences including air guns

Scotland

Homicides using airguns in the past ten years .. 1997 - 2008 .. Seven

England and Wales


Homicides using airguns in the past ten years .. 1997 - 2008 .. Nine
__________________
If these satistics warrant the banning of Air Guns then the deaths on our roads alone means that we should ban Vehicle driving Immediately.

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scotjimland

scotjimland

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Firearm offences including air guns

Scotland

Homicides using airguns in the past ten years .. 1997 - 2008 .. Seven

England and Wales


Homicides using airguns in the past ten years .. 1997 - 2008 .. Nine
__________________
If these satistics warrant the banning of Air Guns then the deaths on our roads alone means that we should ban Vehicle driving Immediately.


posted for information and comment ...

I'm against banning.. (see my second post).

My own view is that these stats don't warrant a ban.
 
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I count myself as a responsible airgunner and stay within the law..an idiot gets hold of an air rifle and goes round shooting anything that moves and shoots a young child then the knee jerk reaction Lets Ban all Air Rifles

Whilst I feel desperately sorry for the family losing a young child I know how they feel my cousin was shot in the face when he was only 10 years old luckily he did'nt lose his sight and after a couple of ops he was ok

Sadly the fact is.. Guns do not kill...People do.. A blanket ban has the Scottish Parliament thought it over if they do it means gun shops closing.. local economies lose out people lose jobs etc etc....I have owned air rifles for years I was taught to shoot by my Grandad and continued when I joined HM Forces full bore small bore pistols ..the list goes on and on

I currently own an Air Arms S400k which is a legal limit rifle and I have written permission to shoot on land near to my home in Halifax the landowner is quite happy for me to shoot rabbits and other vermin on his land I have never had any issues with adjoining land owners as I always stay on my own area

A ban would not really work in my opinion it would push it underground as for licensing I think thats a no no too that would be another stealth tax for the Whitehall wonders..they have banned foxhunting they have banned hand guns.if they ban air rifles then it will be shotguns then fishing the list will go on and on and on

As I have said before guns do not kill....people do!!
 

geoff587

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Firearm offences including air guns

Scotland

Homicides using airguns in the past ten years .. 1997 - 2008 .. Seven

England and Wales


Homicides using airguns in the past ten years .. 1997 - 2008 .. Nine
__________________
If these satistics warrant the banning of Air Guns then the deaths on our roads alone means that we should ban Vehicle driving Immediately.

And all contact sports

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pappajohn

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i reckon its easier to walk into a gun shop and buy an air rifle at 18 years old than go to tesco and buy a bottle of wine.

when buying an air rifle there should be some form of photo id as proof of age (if you dont look old enough) and address.

the law was changed some time ago forbidding the postage of all new firearms but, the law being an ass, there is no ban on posting used guns. :Eeek:.
WHY?

a simple one off registration system with an obligation to keep the authorities informed of any change of address or new buyer if you sell it, who would then need to register the gun themselves, would be a suitable system.
to keep a check on the system an annual presentation of the weapon, with the registry reciept or certificate, to the police would work.

banning something doesnt make it unobtainable......

Psssst!!!! anyone want a used kalashnikov AK47 or an Uzzi.:winky::roflmto:
 

Landy lover

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This is a really contentious issue - when I was 8 years old living in the country I had an old .177 air rifle - I used to go out with my mate who also had a gun and we would go rabbiting and squirrel hunting - rabbits for food and squirrels for the tails - you would get 1 shilling for a tail in those days - we had been to the local farmers and got permission and a big landowner who let us shoot squirrels - the 'big but' though is I lived in the countryside - I was not allowed to shoot in the garden because Dad always said there was too much risk - I new if I defied him it would hurt! - never had a slip for it but the rules the was it would always be broken when it the street and any complaints from anyone and I would loose the gun. I have shotgun and firearms certificates and would never dream of carrying a gun uncovered in public and if someone approaches me when I am out with it the first thing I do is break the gun so they can feel safe. Its called respect for others - this sort of training was a part of village life and if you did not comply life could be very awkward. Sadly that is a part of modern life that has gone for many people and that has created the need for many otherwise unnecessary laws.

So do I want to see a ban NO

Do I want to see airguns certificated NO

Should there be an age limit on ownership POSSIBLY

Should there be an age limit on use under good supervision NO
lessons learnt early are seldom forgotten

There should however be strict and swift justice for those misusing any weapon
 

pappajohn

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When I cross a road from one field to another I bag up the gun.

K

im sure you are also aware its an offence to fire an air rifle within 50ft of the center line of a public road, which includes any public path, track, trail or lane, even if you are on private land. :thumb:

Ooops...its in the code of practice.....as usual i type then read. :Blush:

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JayDee

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Im not up to date on the laws about Airguns but Im pretty sure that the last two I bought a few years ago now that I didnt have to register them or get a licence. I know you do for a shotgun or rifle but dont think you do for an air weapon. Perhaps someone can clarify.

Perhaps if they are all registered and one is involved in a deliberate incident or accident when it is found to have been used illegally or irresponsibly then they may be able to bring the registrar to court. If there are more severe penelties then perhaps fewer weapons will end up in the wrong hands. There will always be a few incidents no matter what you do but a ban insnt the answer. Our gun laws I think are pretty good. Look at America!

Whew, short question but very long and complex answer:Doh::Smile:.
To put it very simply, any gun is a firearm, from air rifle to AK47. An air rifle that has a power of under 12 ft lbs does not require a firearms certificate. If higher it does. Any weapon that uses live ammunition (e,g. gunpowder), whatever its power (which will be above 12 ft lbs anyway) needs a FAC. When testing an airgun the police will use whatever ammunition they choose. Different calibres and pellet weights will perform differently, for example I use JSB .177 4.52 pellets that weigh 8.4 grains. A friend of mine uses Mosquito .177 that weigh (I believe) 7.8 grains. My pellets in my gun give a reading of 11.4 ft lbs over our club chronograph; my friends pellets through my rifle read a little higher (about 11.6). If the rifle they are testing registers over 12 ft lbs they will destroy the gun and prosecute the owner (max term in prison 5 years). Nobody that has had a custodial sentence (for whatever reason) of more than 3 months is permitted to own an air gun EVER. There are lots of laws that apply to owning and using airguns in respect of age, place of use, precautions to be taken, etc. - too much to put here, but it's all available on line somewhere.

So the laws are already in place to control these weapons (for weapons they are - if you can kill a rabbit at twenty yards you can kill a human at twenty yards). What is lacking is the promulgation of the knowledge by those in authority, and the control not being applied by those people in charge to those in their care either through laissez faire attitudes or wanton irresponsibility (and this includes parents - I am astonished how many otherwise perfectly sensible and reasonable parents believe that it is perfectly OK for 13 year old Jimmy to own his own gun and to go out shooting completely unsupervised by an adult. Hey people! It's illegal, full stop.).

So no we don't need yet more laws that are not going to be enforced. What we need is the enforcement of existing laws and the education of those responsible for ensuring they are respected. Another point is that if 13 year old Jimmy does go out with 'his' gun onto somebody elses property unsupervised, with or without permission, the parents / guardians are as guilty of the crimes as little Jimmy. And, of course, the parents 'should' know better.


Sorry about that.:Blush: As the club secretary I will be the person the law will want to interview if one of our members breaks the law - and I really don't fancy that at all. So we make sure that our prospective members are fully briefed on the law and they must sign an afidavit that they can legally possess an air gun, or if they are under 18 years of age then the parent / guardian signs to that effect (subject to the laws on age) in front of a club officer who then signs as witness. There ya go; dead easy (not:whatthe:).

John
 

woodyold

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When i was a youngster i had air rifles , shotguns etc by law these all had to be licenced the air rifles couldnt be discharged within 50 feet of a public footpath etc and all guns had to be covered or in a case , shotguns had to be broken and cloth stuffed into the chambers when you were on a public footpath road etc . Surely this law /rule stands today .
 
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Wildman

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im sure you are also aware its an offence to fire an air rifle within 50ft of the center line of a public road, which includes any public path, track, trail or lane, even if you are on private land. :thumb:

Ooops...its in the code of practice.....as usual i type then read. :Blush:
sorry John you are wrong it is only an offence if by so doing you are putting someone in danger. So if you are on private land shooting into an open field and have your back to the road the 50ft does not apply. As upheld by a recent courtcase. I'll try to find the exact wording of the act when I have time you have only quoted part of it.

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stagman

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Im not up to date on the laws about Airguns but Im pretty sure that the last two I bought a few years ago now that I didnt have to register them or get a licence. I know you do for a shotgun or rifle but dont think you do for an air weapon. Perhaps someone can clarify.

Yes sorry you are right about the licence , but with the new laws you cannot buy ammunition or an airgun unless you are over 18 anyone under the age of 14 must be under constant supervision by an adult of 21 .The shame is that most of the things that go on are done by people that are already breaking the law so why bring in another law to penalise the law abiding people.
 
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stagman

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791 Americans were killed by toasters last year.

Ban them I say or licence them . Did you know that if someone concelled a banana under a coat and tried to use it in a robbery pretending it was a gun .It would go into the books as a firearm offence:thumb:

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barryd

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Sorry about the toaster thing. I try to be all grown up but I quickly get bored with serious debate and have to spoil it.

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