Leisure Battery (1 Viewer)

davethespark

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Hi everybody

I am thinking of investing in an EZA 12v lithium power pack to replace lead acid batteries. I know they are expensive But we are looking for stress free living and these look ideal.
Has any one got any experience of them ,and are there any reviews for their long term use? All I can find is basically advertising

Cheers DC
 

pappajohn

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In my opinion the tech for large batteries is too new.
In a real world how long will they really last, how many charge cycles before they begin to deteriorate.
The cost will buy many conventional lead acids, far outlasting in total one lithium.

Trojan or similar traction batteries would be a much wiser buy in view.

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hilldweller

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But we are looking for stress free living

Then I can see why you are thinking of using the technology the set fire to Sony laptops, that grounded the new Boeing Dreamliner, that turns Tesla cars into fireballs.

Lithium is good when weight and space is vitally important.
 
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Lithium has many advantages over lead acid: little or no voltage drop-off as they discharge, difficult to damage in storage, no requirement for top-up charging, simple and precise charging systems, very high current capacity with very little voltage sag under heavy loads (excellent for inverter use). They're expensive but may cost little or no more than equivalent lead acid long term. One mistake with a lead acid can kill it or substantially reduce its lifespan - something that's almost impossible to do to a lithium battery.

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davethespark

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Has anybody got or had one of these? if so what are your views
 
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@davethespark
http://www.technomadia.com/2015/02/living-the-lithium-lifestyle-3-5-year-lithium-rv-battery-update/

These guys actually use lithium batteries and have done for years, know the difference between the various types, don't confuse the ones originally used on Dreamliners and Sony laptops etc with the type used in the EZA and provide a proper review based on personal knowledgeable experience as opposed to a report of a chat between two people. So suggest you read the above and then make up your mind.

Chris may even reply to a nicely worded email, he did to a query of mine.
 
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davethespark

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That was really interesting, I dont think my wife would let me build a DIY system but my gut feeling is that lithium is the way to go. I have heard countless negative opinions but very little evidence drawn from experience. We are going to the Lincoln show next month and hopefully EZA will have a presence,so I can get more info, And get some feedback from previous customers .I dont think this is unreasonable given the price of the unit.

Thanks very Much DC

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jonandshell

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Found this comparison online
Lithium -v- AGM

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2015/03/30/batteries-lithium-ion-vs-agm/


I'd be interested to find out about charging Lithium batteries. Are conventional solar controllers, B2B and mains chargers compatible?

All the above will not work.
The EZA Lithium unit has its own inbuilt charger. You simply connect it to your starter battery via an Anderson plug and there are inputs for the rest.
A B2B would be made redundant.
There is an installation guide below-
 

jonandshell

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At £2700, I'll be keeping my A2B charger and traction batteries!
I note that the EZA pack can only have a maximum of 1500w inverter and cannot be used for an emergency jump start.

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Robert Clark

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I wonder if the Victron Lithium Batteries would be more compatible with their own solar controllers, inverters and chargers?
 

funflair

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The 1500 watt inverter on a 80ah battery would be pretty good but I would expect a touch higher on the 130ah version although 1500 watts is as much as we would need.

Solar panels go direct to the unit without a regulator.


Quote from installation
  • Only connect devices which supply a voltage value between 18 and 22 Volts and a maximum current of 40A. Maximum allowed power: 400W.

  •  Make sure that no external solar panel regulator is connected to the solar panel. A specific high efficiency lithium regulator is integrated in the EZA battery.

    Martin
 

funflair

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I wonder if the Victron Lithium Batteries would be more compatible with their own solar controllers, inverters and chargers?

Hi Robert

Any solar panel 18 to 22 volts max 40 amps or 400 watts (which doesn't seem to tally)

Martin

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jonandshell

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This will make you think-

My present system-

3x 115 AH traction batteries £360
1x Alternator to Battery charger £330
1x 2100w Inverter £400
Leads and sundries £100
Effective useable capacity 276 Ah at 80% DoD.

Total £1190, or £4.31 per Ah.

EZA system-

2x 130 Ah EZA packs £5590
2x Cables £144
1x Coupling Kit £495
1x EZA 1500w Inverter £988
Sundies £100.

Total effective available capacity is not published but I will call it 260Ah.

Total £7317, or £28.14 per Ah.
 
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Mar 10, 2016
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This will make you think-

My present system-

3x 115 AH traction batteries £360
1x Alternator to Battery charger £330
1x 2100w Inverter £400
Leads and sundries £100
Effective useable capacity 276 Ah at 80% DoD.

Total £1190, or £4.31 per Ah.

EZA system-

2x 130 Ah EZA packs £5590
2x Cables £144
1x Coupling Kit £495
1x EZA 1500w Inverter £988
Sundies £100.

Total effective available capacity is not published but I will call it 260Ah.

Total £7317, or £28.14 per Ah.

Lithiums at present cannot compete on a pure like for like cost basis, however they do have offsets to that high initial cost.
The estimated lifecycle at present for properly installed lithium powerpacks is as high as 20+ years, during which time your standard batteries would have had to be replaced several times, especially the AGM or gel types. We reckon on a maximum of 5 years for the ones we use for mission critical applications and we treat them with loving care and attention!

Lithium's can also have more 'usable' capacity which can be taken advantage of by either reducing the AHC or the weight carried or both., or indeed increasing your off EHU endurance.

It rather depends on whether these factors provide enough draw to make it worth your while and paying that large initial up front cost.
 

funflair

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This will make you think-

My present system-

3x 115 AH traction batteries £360
1x Alternator to Battery charger £330
1x 2100w Inverter £400
Leads and sundries £100
Effective useable capacity 276 Ah at 80% DoD.

Total £1190, or £4.31 per Ah.

EZA system-

2x 130 Ah EZA packs £5590
2x Cables £144
1x Coupling Kit £495
1x EZA 1500w Inverter £988
Sundies £100.

Total effective available capacity is not published but I will call it 260Ah.

Total £7317, or £28.14 per Ah.

But nobody said it was cheap.

What's the weight of your traction batteries 100kg or more? What does the EZA system weigh? you would most likely be OK with the 130ah system so saving a Few quid, no solar regulators needed so you could save a couple of hundred there so could knock nearly £3k of the price, So about £4K to save a few kg and a lump of space that not everybody has for traction batteries.

Martin

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Bart

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But all that cost for lithium batteries that ..YES will out live the lead batteries. But in 5 years time the expensive lithium batteries will be so outdated as technology moves on . And the lithium batteries in 5 years time will be more superior that you would most likely want to change them anyway.
 

jonandshell

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But nobody said it was cheap.

What's the weight of your traction batteries 100kg or more? What does the EZA system weigh? you would most likely be OK with the 130ah system so saving a Few quid, no solar regulators needed so you could save a couple of hundred there so could knock nearly £3k of the price, So about £4K to save a few kg and a lump of space that not everybody has for traction batteries.

Martin

EZA 130 Ah 25kg
Lead acid 130 Ah traction 28Kg
 

sallylillian

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But all that cost for lithium batteries that ..YES will out live the lead batteries. But in 5 years time the expensive lithium batteries will be so outdated as technology moves on . And the lithium batteries in 5 years time will be more superior that you would most likely want to change them anyway.
So you are still rubbing sticks to make fire on the basis that the next development is worth waiting for?

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funflair

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EZA 130 Ah 25kg
Lead acid 130 Ah traction 28Kg
OK the Trojan figures I saw were 30kg and I thought they would have been higher, of course the EZA has the solar controller included and I guess the mains charger as well but still not that much in it.

Martin
 
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OK the Trojan figures I saw were 30kg and I thought they would have been higher, of course the EZA has the solar controller included and I guess the mains charger as well but still not that much in it.

Martin
The EZA is heavy because its a powerpack rather than a direct replacement for a Lead acid battery. There are a number of directly swappable LiFePo4 batteries on the market now that include the balancing circuit & BMS in the block and can be directly substituted for an LA type as long as the existing charger can be set to an AGM/Gel setting. A 200AHC battery of this type weighs around 30kgs but has an equivalent usable capacity to an LA of 260/300AHC.

Those that don't eg Victron, generally come with a battery management system lead that is connected to an external module which controls the charging.
So for equivalent usable capacity you are looking at around a 50% weight saving and similar space saving.

This is an American supplier of such batteries who does ship worldwide. These are direct drop in replacements and IMHO the way to go for existing LA installations.
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com...n-batteries/12v-200ah-lithium-ion-battery.php

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Last edited:
Mar 10, 2016
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My gels on my previous hymer were 11 years old and still working well.
If you treat your batteries right, they should last, manufacturing errors excepted.
Good to hear. We change ours out on board because they are safety critical and 5 years is the manufacturer's guideline life expectancy.
For RH I certainly hope they will last as long as yours as they are a pair of very expensive Exide gel's (almost £500 each...! only installed in 2012 by the previous owner. If I and RH last that long I will hope that lithium's have dropped in price a tad by time I need them.

Think the point about lithium's is that its horses for courses, if the advantages in weight and space are essential to you then it is now a feasible though expensive option, if they aren't then probably some good gels
 
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I think that @Bart has a good point.

If there is a hint of mass market takeup - other companies will dive in and the prices will come down and the options become more varied - like solar panels, mobile phones and videos cassettes to name a few.

I m going to watch and wait for a bit.

Jon

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sallylillian

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I think that @Bart has a good point.

If there is a hint of mass market takeup - other companies will dive in and the prices will come down and the options become more varied - like solar panels, mobile phones and videos cassettes to name a few.

I m going to watch and wait for a bit.

Jon
Hindsight is such a great skill set I wish I had it, then I would not have bought my VHS player, I would have waited for the DVD player, but maybe I would have waited for my Blue ray player instead, no I would have skipped all those and waited for streaming, no I will wait for the cheap brain implant that connects me directly with the internet and I can see movies in my head...... or shall I wait for?
Its always a difficult call!
 
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I had an NEC 'portable' phone that was about 3 inches wide but sat on a battery pack of about 12 inches square - worked only in urban centres and gave me 3 hours standby!!!!

about 1988??

In fairness it did have nice big buttons.

Jon

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