Expert help required (1 Viewer)

[First motorhome]

Hello there, can anyone answer this query?

I have held a normal driving licence since 1970, this gives me class C1, I believe I can drive a vehicle up to 7.5t. The Chausson motorhome is classed as a 3500 KG but the V5 document only shows a revenue weight of 3650 KG. The Fiat chassis data plate has the following 4 weights, 3650 KG, 6150 KG, 1850 KG and 2000 KG. The Trigano data plate lists 4 weights, 3500 KG, 4600 KG, 1850 KG and 2000 KG.

The question is what is the maximum total legal weight I can drive on the road and what do the various weights refer to?
Any help with explanation of all or some of the data would be gratefully appreciated.

Regards, Kelvin.

 

[icantremember]

4 weights, 3650 KG = Max gross weight, 6150 KG = max train weight (for towing), 1850 KG =Max front axle and 2000 KG - max rear axle

 

[Deleted member 29692]

The weight on the V5 is the correct one. The maximum weight is 3650kg.

The weights in order are:

1. MTPLM of the vehicle - the maximum it can weigh and still be legal
2. The maximum train weight - this is the maximum combined weight of the vehicle and any trailer
3. The maximum load on the front axle
4. The maximum load on the rear axle.


The motorhome isn't "classed" as any particular weight. A lot of converters will plate them at 3500kg so that they can be driven on a normal car licence. The problem with that is that a lot of them aren't fit for purpose at that weight which is why lots of people uprate them.

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[Boringfrog]

The weight on the V5 is the correct one. The maximum weight is 3650kg.

The weights in order are:

1. MTPLM of the vehicle - the maximum it can weigh and still be legal
2. The maximum train weight - this is the maximum combined weight of the vehicle and any trailer
3. The maximum load on the front axle
4. The maximum load on the rear axle.


The motorhome isn't "classed" as any particular weight. A lot of converters will plate them at 3500kg so that they can be driven on a normal car licence. The problem with that is that a lot of them aren't fit for purpose at that weight which is why lots of people uprate them.

I agree but it seems strange the Triango plate saying 3500kg?

 

[Emmit]

Here goes (prepared to accept the cabbages hurled in my direction.)
You have two weight plates. The first one was stuck on by Fiat when your prized possession was a van (ie before it was a motorcaravan)
The second was the one stuck on by Trigano who are the manufacturers of your conversion to the motorhome.

For your purposes you can ignore the Fiat plate (of more later) and you take on board the Trigano plate.

Of the figures, the first no. is the maximum allowed weight of the vehicle as it sits on the road with you, the wife, dog, kids, fuel, water etc. The second no. is the maximum 'Train Weight' allowed. That is the total weight you are allowed to be with a trailer attached and on the road. ie ball park figure, if you had 3500kgs of motorhome and attached a trailer, the trailer could weigh 1100kgs and you would still be legal. The last two no.s refer to the maximum weights allowed for the two axles. The first no. is the front axle and the second one is the rear axle.

Right, here comes the anomalies with regard to the figures you have.

You will notice that the Fiat numbers vary from those of Trigano.
That is because 3500kgs is a magic number where virtually anyone can drive the 'van. Trigano have lowered those figures to encompass everyone to be able to use your 'van (not literally).

It would appear that you could, if you should so wish, apply to DVLA to up the max. Gross weight of the van to 3650kgs but DVLA ordinarily would not take your word for it and would ask that you supply additional evidence to prove it. There are various Companies that, for a fee, would supply that eveidence.

You will notice that if you add your axle weights together, it adds up to 3850Kgs. With the additional evidence I reckon that DVLA would allow you to uprate the Gross weight of your 'van to 3800Kgs.
It would also seem that you could also increase your train weight as well as the two plates are wildly at varience with each other.

No doubt some other Funster will have been typing in tandem with me but if they're not, and I've said something you don't understand please ask. It may be that you will not have to ask for an upgrade (cost, up to £312) but modern vans are notorious for not having enough carrying capacity.

Regards

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I agree but it seems strange the Triango plate saying 3500kg?

It's also strange that they've cut the train weight so much.

It's what the V5 says that matters though. It's possible that Triango originally plated it at 3500, a previous owner uprated it back to 3650 and the OP just hasn't found the third (newest) weight plate.

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[Lenny HB]

AS Nick says it has been downplated to 3500 kg, but it would be fairly easy to get it replated to 3650kg, if you intend to do it check your axle loading to see if you have enough capacity on the rear axle to make it worthwhile.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

AS Nick says it has been downplated to 3500 kg, but it would be fairly easy to get it replated to 3650kg, if you intend to do it check your axle loading to see if you have enough capacity on the rear axle to make it worthwhile.

I think it's already been uprated back to 3650 and there will be a third plate somewhere.

The V5 says 3650 so as far as the DVLA are concerned that's what it is.

 

[icantremember]

I think it's already been uprated back to 3650 and there will be a third plate somewhere.

The V5 says 3650 so as far as the DVLA are concerned that's what it is.

I agree.

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[Emmit]

The OP should??? be able to get his Max.Gross to 3800Kgs.

When I applied, with a front axle/rear axle figures of 1750/2000 I was able to get it increased to 3700Kgs.

 

[TerryL]

And as for what you can drive, C1 gives you the okay for any vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes mauw NOT for hire and reward. Until you're 70 that is, then it gets interesting.

 

[Mikeco]

The train weight will have been reduced due to a chassis extension or chassis construction so that will not increase. As it will stay the same if replated you will have less towing capacity than before it was replated

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[Minxy]

the V5 document only shows a revenue weight of 3650 KG

I take it that's from D.6 [Y] on the V5C? Out of interest what does it say under D.5 [X] Taxation Class?

First comes the Fiat plate which is then superceded by the Trigano plate, however it would appear that either of the following could be what's happened:

• the dealer, when first registering the vehicle, in correctly did so based on Fiat's figures and not Trigano's revised figures

or​

• the previous owner had the vehicle re-plated back to the original Fiat weight but has neglected to put on a 3rd weight plate ... or it's somewhere else on the vehicle which you haven't found yet!

It may be your only 'safe' course of action is to ring the DVLA and see if they have on record which weight it was first registered at, as that is likely to give you the answer!

 

[Lenny HB]

I think it's already been uprated back to 3650 and there will be a third plate somewhere.

The V5 says 3650 so as far as the DVLA are concerned that's what it is.

I miss read it.

 

[Minxy]

If you do find out that it is actually 3500kg and therefore need to uprate it there's a chap that I used for doing ours who is much cheaper than SVTech, see post #31 on the below thread for details and a link to my original thread about it.

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/weight-again.126088/page-2#post-1770894

also this thread too:

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/which-weight.121182/page-2#post-1689821

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[Boringfrog]

If the VED is £165 it will be 3650KG.

 

[Emmit]

Thanks for joining in Mel.

I knew you had done it a lot less expensively than the usual place.
It would seem that the 'van in question has a Max Weight of 3500Kgs at the mo. However, if the VED to be paid is £165 then that means that it's already been uprated and somewhere there should be a further plate showing this. I was told to put ours on the offside door return.

 

[gus-lopez]

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[Daedalus]

And as for what you can drive, C1 gives you the okay for any vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes mauw NOT for hire and reward. Until you're 70 that is, then it gets interesting.

That is not correct - "the not for hire or reward" on licenses is in connection with the D1 (bus) licence (Category Restriction 101 - not for hire or reward (that is, not to make a profit) which you also used to receive as part of the "Grandfather" rights. There is nothing to stop someone who holds a C1 licence, obtained prior to 01 January 1997 on the "Grandfather" rights driving a commercial vehicle (up to 7,500kg) for a living.

 

[cronkle]

That is not correct - "the not for hire or reward" on licenses is in connection with the D1 (bus) licence (Category Restriction 101 - not for hire or reward (that is, not to make a profit) which you also used to receive as part of the "Grandfather" rights. There is nothing to stop someone who holds a C1 licence, obtained prior to 01 January 1997 on the "Grandfather" rights driving a commercial vehicle (up to 7,500kg) for a living.

Hello there,

Which of the VIN plates would you have used for enforcement purposes? I thought a VOSA inspector from Carlisle once told me it would be the latest, i.e. the converters plate that would be relevant.

 

[Daedalus]

Hello there,

Which of the VIN plates would you have used for enforcement purposes? I thought a VOSA inspector from Carlisle once told me it would be the latest, i.e. the converters plate that would be relevant.

You're quite correct Mike - the converters plate takes precedence as they are the people who altered the dynamics of the vehicle and therefore the weights the chassis would be capable of carrying safely.
That is not to say that those weights are written in stone, with suitable alterations to the tyres/suspension etc. the gross weight (or MAM) can quite be easily (if somewhat expensively) up-rated. In some cases, due to the peculiarities of various parts of legislation, it's a paper exercise to bring the vehicle plating up to its "design" weight (which is normally higher than the original plated weight).

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[First motorhome]

Thanks to all the people who have replied, there's a lot of knowledge out there.
I've checked the VED and I paid £165, the taxation class (D.5x) says Private HGV.
Anyone heading to Cataluña MotoGP this year?
Thanks again for all the help, Kelvin.

 

[Emmit]

Thanks to all the people who have replied, there's a lot of knowledge out there.
I've checked the VED and I paid £165, the taxation class (D.5x) says Private HGV.
Anyone heading to Cataluña MotoGP this year?
Thanks again for all the help, Kelvin.

It would appear therefore "Firstmotorhome" that a previous owner has brought the vehicle back to it's original MAM of 3650Kgs. This is good because it gives you an extra 150kgs on top of what Chausson did when they downrated the 'van on conversion to 3500Kgs. They did not put a new plate on the 'van, assuming that the old one would do.

However, there is a problem insomuch as that your last plate (the one from Chausson) shows 3500Kgs. Given that you could be checked, without the additional plate that shows you have regained the 3650Kgs. you could be challenged by the Police or even worse, the Police in France, Spain.

I appreciate that your revenue weight shows 3650Kgs on your V5 but the Police will work off the latest Plate and, as it shows 3500kgs you will have to fight your way out of an potential argument.

 

[Minxy]

Thanks to all the people who have replied, there's a lot of knowledge out there.
I've checked the VED and I paid £165, the taxation class (D.5x) says Private HGV.
Anyone heading to Cataluña MotoGP this year?
Thanks again for all the help, Kelvin.

That's good, the revenue weight and taxation class at least tally! I would still give the DVLA a ring though to check as it could still have been an error and you need to be sure you are 'legally' in the right class.

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[mitzimad]

It would appear therefore "Firstmotorhome" that a previous owner has brought the vehicle back to it's original MAM of 3650Kgs. This is good because it gives you an extra 150kgs on top of what Chausson did when they downrated the 'van on conversion to 3500Kgs. They did not put a new plate on the 'van, assuming that the old one would do.

However, there is a problem insomuch as that your last plate (the one from Chausson) shows 3500Kgs. Given that you could be checked, without the additional plate that shows you have regained the 3650Kgs. you could be challenged by the Police or even worse, the Police in France, Spain.

I appreciate that your revenue weight shows 3650Kgs on your V5 but the Police will work off the latest Plate and, as it shows 3500kgs you will have to fight your way out of an potential argument.

in which case its best to loose the trianco plate especially if you dont intend towing if you do intend towing then i wouldnt exceed the triaco gross train weight

 

[Boringfrog]

@First motorhome be aware the speed limits are slightly different if you're over 3500kg. 50Mph is max on single carriageway and 60mph on dual. (National speed limit roads).
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

 

[Minxy]

@First motorhome be aware the speed limits are slightly different if you're over 3500kg. 50Mph is max on single carriageway and 60mph on dual. (National speed limit roads).
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Actually that's not correct for the UK, the relevant weight regarding what speed you can legally do is based on the unladen weight of the vehicle, ie whether you're over or under 3050kg, not the maximum laden weight. It can in effect mean that a MH which is classed as a PHGV and could weigh, as ours does, up to a maximum laden weight of 4250kg (we up-plated) still has an unladen weight of 3050kg so we can still do the higher speeds despite being over 3500kg ... it's a nutty system!

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[cronkle]

@First motorhome be aware the speed limits are slightly different if you're over 3500kg. 50Mph is max on single carriageway and 60mph on dual. (National speed limit roads).
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Isn't that 3050kg as in 'not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight' as per the link

edit: sorry Minxy, was typing as you posted.

 

[Emmit]

in which case its best to loose the trianco plate especially if you dont intend towing if you do intend towing then i wouldnt exceed the triaco gross train weight

To be fair, the OP can't just 'lose' the Trigano plate. What he/she needs is a new plate to reflect what has been discovered. Without that new plate the OP is between a rock and a hard place. Removing that Converters plate will raise suspicions in the eyes of Authority.

 

[Boringfrog]

Actually that's not correct for the UK, the relevant weight regarding what speed you can legally do is based on the unladen weight of the vehicle, ie whether you're over or under 3050kg, not the maximum laden weight. It can in effect mean that a MH which is classed as a PHGV and could weigh, as ours does, up to a maximum laden weight of 4250kg (we up-plated) still has an unladen weight of 3050kg so we can still do the higher speeds despite being over 3500kg ... it's a nutty system!

Strange one? So who knows the unladen weight of their van? Is that the MIRO? How should you find it?