Propane verses Butane. (1 Viewer)

scottie

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Hi everyone, any ideas please. I drive a van conversion that can only carry 2 * 4.5 kg butane, or 2* 3.9kg Propane, both bottle dimensions are the same, but missus informs me that butane weighs more, " ex chemist". I have always tended to just use the propane as it is better in colder weather, but my questions are;. Should I switch over to butane for the summer months, or just stay with the propane. I'm assuming the actual volume of gas is the same in each cylinder, just the weight difference being attributable to butane being heavier. I think I have just answered the question, but is it an item that anyone has looked at previously. The more modern van conversions now carry 2* 6kg propane, most of them located under the sink space which I currently have as cupboards only. Many thanks for your thoughts opinions.
 

Steve

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But you should know that butane is more efficient than propane when used as fuel. If same volume of butane and propane is burned at temperature above freezing, butane will end up providing 12% more energy than propane. Thus, butane can be the preferred choice when it is available in adequate amounts since it is energy-efficient and also has an advantage of cheaper price.
That is why butane regulators are 28bm and propane ones are 37mb you need more propane for the same amount of energy given. But propane more available and why change.
Steve

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Last edited:
Oct 7, 2013
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Propane works summer and winter.

Butane may not work in winter when temperatures are low, especially in the evenings and at night.

It's a no brainer, surely. (Unless, of course, you are a summer only user or a snowbird).
 

scotjimland

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yes it is.....

your link is for Cepsa .. that is Spain.. AutoGas ...



Autogas (no capital G) as sold in the UK is produced by Calor and is high purity PROPANE

Technical Publication
Calor Safety Data Sheet - Liquefied Propane Gas
104800 V 8 07/11– Calor Liquefied Propane Gas Safety Data Sheet
Page 1 of 9
Published by the Safety, Health and Environment Department
Data Sheet No 2 Revision 8 Replaces
Revisions 03/00, 04/03, 08/05, 03/06,
06/09, 02/10, 12/10
This data sheet has been prepared in accordance with the requirements of Article
31 of EU Regulation 1907/2006 (as amended) on the Registration, Evaluation,
Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals (REACH)
1. Identification of the Substance or Preparation and of the supplier
Identification of the substance orpreparation:
Calor Liquefied Propane Gas including products
marked as Calor Propane Calor Autogas, Calor Patio
Gas & Calor is High Purity Propane


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Oct 5, 2012
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yes it is.....

your link is for Cepsa .. that is Spain.. AutoGas ...



Autogas (no capital G) as sold in the UK is produced by Calor and is high purity PROPANE

Technical Publication
Calor Safety Data Sheet - Liquefied Propane Gas
104800 V 8 07/11– Calor Liquefied Propane Gas Safety Data Sheet
Page 1 of 9
Published by the Safety, Health and Environment Department
Data Sheet No 2 Revision 8 Replaces
Revisions 03/00, 04/03, 08/05, 03/06,
06/09, 02/10, 12/10
This data sheet has been prepared in accordance with the requirements of Article
31 of EU Regulation 1907/2006 (as amended) on the Registration, Evaluation,
Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals (REACH)
1. Identification of the Substance or Preparation and of the supplier
Identification of the substance orpreparation:
Calor Liquefied Propane Gas including products
marked as Calor Propane Calor Autogas, Calor Patio
Gas & Calor is High Purity Propane


So er.....what about the Thetford fridge, and running that on Spanish butane instead of a nice propane mix, do you know how it will react ????
 
Oct 5, 2012
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I've never had a problem, I used Spanish AutoGas for many months while traveling in the RV in Spain ..

have you had a problem ?
Not since I washed out the seawater from the Brittany ferries al fresco trip :Eeek:

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SandraL

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We have found that spanish autogas with its higher proportion of butane causes our truma heater to fail due to lack of pressure in cooler weather. Not freezing or frosty, just when its about 5deg c or so. On these occasions cooker and fridge have continued to work as their demand for gas is lower than the heater. A kettle of warm water over the cylinder made it work for another 20 mins or so.
 

PeteH

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For over half a century, the "Given" word was that Butane, OK summer, but come Autumn? get yourself a Propane bottle or Mem-sahib will be complaining of feeling cold when the heater fails to ignite!!. So guys for the slight extra cost of the propane the continued silence is well worth it!.

Pete
 
9

9526

Deleted User
yes it is.....

your link is for Cepsa .. that is Spain.. AutoGas ...



Autogas (no capital G) as sold in the UK is produced by Calor and is high purity PROPANE

Technical Publication
Calor Safety Data Sheet - Liquefied Propane Gas
104800 V 8 07/11– Calor Liquefied Propane Gas Safety Data Sheet
Page 1 of 9
Published by the Safety, Health and Environment Department
Data Sheet No 2 Revision 8 Replaces
Revisions 03/00, 04/03, 08/05, 03/06,
06/09, 02/10, 12/10
This data sheet has been prepared in accordance with the requirements of Article
31 of EU Regulation 1907/2006 (as amended) on the Registration, Evaluation,
Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals (REACH)
1. Identification of the Substance or Preparation and of the supplier
Identification of the substance orpreparation:
Calor Liquefied Propane Gas including products
marked as Calor Propane Calor Autogas, Calor Patio
Gas & Calor is High Purity Propane




Well it would appear that the European LPG Association disagree with you, they seem to be under the impression that the term Autogas (without the capital) is a "blanket denomination" covering propane and butane, oh well what do they know!!

Whilst it's obvious that colder countries are going to lean more to propane, the statement that "autgas is propane" is clearly Bunkum (with a capital B) (I tried to put a blobby out tongue emoticon here to demonstrate that I'm just winding Jim up but for some reason my emoticons are buggered)

To answer the OP - Propane every time, or Autog(G)as if you're on refillables



image.png

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Feb 26, 2012
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This thread seems to have changed direction.
Older vehicles still use regulators attached to the bottle and will be different pressure regulation for Butane and Propane.
Newer vehicles will have a bulkhead mounted regulator set at 37mb and you decide whether to use B or P.
Question then is, do you end up using more Butane than necessary or does the extra heat mean that the kettle boils more quickly?

Brian
 

Steve

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the correct regulator should be used for the type of gas being burnt.
the applience will have been jetted for a certan gas pressure. i have found that most things that use butane are 28mb and most things propane 37mb.
if i light a flame on the hob with butane but at the propane pressure the gas burn is louder and trying to blow its self out. this is not good in my opion and could lead to a serious problem. If you are not sure then seek the correct setup from a qualified person. do not mess with gas it can go very wrong.
Steve
 
Feb 26, 2012
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I quoted the wrong figure for the bulkhead fixed regulator. It is set at 30mb. This is the requirement of EN1949 and BS 5482.

"EN1949 requires a fixed outlet pressure regardless of the gas type and lays down a harmonised pressure of 30mbars for LPG installations across Europe"

Brian

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PeteH

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It is interesting to note that fittings being sold currently are specified as being set to 30mb(+5-0). which suggests that any gas in service would be broadly within it`s parameters?

Pete
 
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Ho Ho Ho a Fun thread about the mix of propane and butane in LPG. The pumps dispensing LPG on forecourts are selling LPG for automotive use, it therefore complies with standard EN589. This standard doesn't specify the mix of the two gases directly but defines five grades which specify the vapour pressure at a standard 40 °C. This indirectly defines the ability of the grade to be useful at various temperatures, hence the mix, as there is a relationship between press and temperature. The standard is set by COMITÉ EUROPÉEN DE NORMALISATION an organisation consisting of the standardisation bodies of the Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and United Kingdom. The standard bodies of these countries specify which grade should be used in their country and this may vary thorough the year. The aim being to sell a mixture suitable for the local area at all times.

Since Funsters move from country to country and fill up relatively infrequently its possible to buy a summer grade say in Spain and try to use it during the winter in say Norway, or vice versa. Therefore its wise to know the possible outcomes of this. Attempting to use a summer grade from a hot country which contains a high amount of butane in winter in a cold country may result in insufficient vapourisation I.E. no gas. Using a winter grade from a cold country which could be entirely propane in a hot country in summer may result in the tank/cylinder pressure on the motorhome be so high that the forecourt pump is incapable of delivering the butane rich LPG into the motorhome. To clarify the pump could see a pressure high enough for it to consider that the 80% shutoff valve has operated and it stops the flow. Motorhomers would be wise to re-try the filling operation during the cooler part of the day.

Not had either problem myself but forewarned.....
 
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scottie

scottie

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Thanks everyone for your replies.

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DBK

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Ho Ho Ho a Fun thread about the mix of propane and butane in LPG. The pumps dispensing LPG on forecourts are selling LPG for automotive use, it therefore complies with standard EN589. This standard doesn't specify the mix of the two gases directly but defines five grades which specify the vapour pressure at a standard 40 °C. This indirectly defines the ability of the grade to be useful at various temperatures, hence the mix, as there is a relationship between press and temperature. The standard is set by COMITÉ EUROPÉEN DE NORMALISATION an organisation consisting of the standardisation bodies of the Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and United Kingdom. The standard bodies of these countries specify which grade should be used in their country and this may vary thorough the year. The aim being to sell a mixture suitable for the local area at all times.

Since Funsters move from country to country and fill up relatively infrequently its possible to buy a summer grade say in Spain and try to use it during the winter in say Norway, or vice versa. Therefore its wise to know the possible outcomes of this. Attempting to use a summer grade from a hot country which contains a high amount of butane in winter in a cold country may result in insufficient vapourisation I.E. no gas. Using a winter grade from a cold country which could be entirely propane in a hot country in summer may result in the tank/cylinder pressure on the motorhome be so high that the forecourt pump is incapable of delivering the butane rich LPG into the motorhome. To clarify the pump could see a pressure high enough for it to consider that the 80% shutoff valve has operated and it stops the flow. Motorhomers would be wise to re-try the filling operation during the cooler part of the day.

Not had either problem myself but forewarned.....
That's very interesting and might explain what happened to me last year. I filled up in March in the UK and next tried to fill at the end of April on a sunny day in the south of Spain. I couldn't get any gas into the tank - an Autogas2000 fixed tank. Tried again on a different pump a few days later with the same result. Eventually I could fill it but only when the gauge was in the red and the tank virtually empty.

I thought it was just a sticky valve and when the pressure fell in the tank the pump pressure was sufficient to shift it but perhaps it was the excitable English gas inside trying to get out. :) Or perhaps a bit of both?
 

Autowbars

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Hi everyone, any ideas please. I drive a van conversion that can only carry 2 * 4.5 kg butane, or 2* 3.9kg Propane, both bottle dimensions are the same, but missus informs me that butane weighs more, " ex chemist". I have always tended to just use the propane as it is better in colder weather, but my questions are;. Should I switch over to butane for the summer months, or just stay with the propane. I'm assuming the actual volume of gas is the same in each cylinder, just the weight difference being attributable to butane being heavier. I think I have just answered the question, but is it an item that anyone has looked at previously. The more modern van conversions now carry 2* 6kg propane, most of them located under the sink space which I currently have as cupboards only. Many thanks for your thoughts opinions.

If you are that worried about weight surely just don't take that can of beer with you
 

PeteH

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I thought it was just a sticky valve and when the pressure fell in the tank the pump pressure was sufficient to shift it but perhaps it was the excitable English gas inside trying to get out. :) Or perhaps a bit of both?

I cannot speak for Autogas. But having had a control / level valve replaced in an R-V, the control valve is a float which shuts off the flow when the Liquid level reaches the mandated point and has nothing to do with gas (vapour) or pressure, however it is feasible that the Vapour pressure in certain circumstances might be too great for pump delivery?. And filling during the "cool" period would then be possible?.

BTW, as a matter of interest, we used to use the "boil off" from the cargo (Vapour) to fuel Boilers in the Engine rooms of LPG bulk carriers, rather than venting. Along with refrigerating the vapour and returning it to the tanks as a liquid. (useless information??)

Pete

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