SeatBelt laws (1 Viewer)

Toxicbunny

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I recently purchased a Swift Suntor with the U shaped lounge. It has two seatbelts at the front no rear seatbelts. I was told we require no rear seatbelts? Its a 2004 model. Can someone guide me to the relevant legislation ?
Ive been on a few forums where some people are saying I do need them some saying I don't need rear sealtbelts. If someone could guide me to the seatbelt law regards motorhomes of this date with U shaped lounge please.
 
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Old Soldier

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I recently purchased a Swift Suntor with the U shaped lounge. It has two seatbelts at the front no rear seatbelts. I was told we require no rear seatbelts? Its a 2004 model. Can someone guide me to the relevant legislation ?
Ive been on a few forums where some people are saying I do need them some saying I don't need rear sealtbelts. If someone could guide me to the seatbelt law regards motorhomes of this date with U shaped lounge please.


Hi.
You will probably get differing opinions on here too.
I have a 2000 Swift Gazelle with a U shaped lounge. Same situation, only two belted seats. My understanding is that the belted seats Must bre used first but other seats can be also used if carrying more than two passengers. I have, and do carry passengers when we go for days out and take even more care with my driving when they are in the back. Try searching this site, I expect you will find other threads on the subject.

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Old Soldier

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Motrohomefun guide to Seat belt law

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Thanks Jim, I read that some time ago and understand all the points made.
Just a thought, and not wishing to get into any arguments but since I retired a couple of years ago I have been using public transport ( buses) a lot more. I don't remember travelling in one which had passenger seat belts fitted, and in addition to seated passengers they can also carry standing passengers.
Not a lot of difference except they can carry more passengers.
Pete
 
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Deleted member 29692

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You should also check your V5. Item S1 in section 4 shows the number of travelling seats you have.

You cannot, ever, for any reason, whether you have seat belts or not, carry more people than this including the driver.

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DBK

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Thanks Jim, I read that some time ago and understand all the points made.
Just a thought, and not wishing to get into any arguments but since I retired a couple of years ago I have been using public transport ( buses) a lot more. I don't remember travelling in one which had passenger seat belts fitted, and in addition to seated passengers they can also carry standing passengers.
Not a lot of difference except they can carry more passengers.
Pete
You are expecting the law to be logical? :)
But in defence of the law you don't generally have seat belts on trains either. The argument might be trains and buses are driven by trained professionals who have to pass a "good character" test I seem to recall so might be expected to crash less often than the typical vehicle driven by Joe Soap. :):):)
 
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Old Soldier

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Could be but having driven coaches, and buses I can assure you that not all drivers are of an equally high standard!! During many years in the forces I taught many new drivers and for over 12 years I was a QTO ( Qualified Testing Officer) , a driving examiner so I'm confident I drive well, it's all those other idiots I'm scared of!!
Just checked my V5 and it is blank on seat numbers. Probably thre van is too old. Perhaps it's one of those new fangled Google driverless vehicles! !:giggler:
 

MC 55 FUN

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You should also check your V5. Item S1 in section 4 shows the number of travelling seats you have.

You cannot, ever, for any reason, whether you have seat belts or not, carry more people than this including the driver.

Be aware that the V5 is not always accurate, our newly purchased 2010 4 berth Autoquest is only listed as having 2 travelling seats - yet it's fitted with 4 with seatbelts by Elddis from new & is something we have brought to DVLA's attention.

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D

Deleted member 29692

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Be aware that the V5 is not always accurate, our newly purchased 2010 4 berth Autoquest is only listed as having 2 travelling seats - yet it's fitted with 4 with seatbelts by Elddis from new & is something we have brought to DVLA's attention.

Probably not the DVLA's fault.

If Autoquest originally registered it as having 2 travelling seats then legally that's what you have, even if it was an honest mistake on their part.

If you bought it new what does the Certificate of Conformity say?

The number of seatbelts is irrelevant - you could have fitted them yourself for all the DVLA know.
 

MC 55 FUN

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Probably not the DVLA's fault.

If Autoquest originally registered it as having 2 travelling seats then legally that's what you have, even if it was an honest mistake on their part.

If you bought it new what does the Certificate of Conformity say?

The number of seatbelts is irrelevant - you could have fitted them yourself for all the DVLA know.

We didn't buy it new so no idea about the C of C, the half dinette directly behind the drivers seat has two forward facing seats with factory fitted seatbelts with an original sticker designating them as travelling seats - so as far as I'm concerned the DVLA has made a mistake - we'll see what they say as I'm awaiting a reply.

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Deleted member 29692

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We didn't buy it new so no idea about the C of C, the half dinette directly behind the drivers seat has two forward facing seats with factory fitted seatbelts with an original sticker designating them as travelling seats - so as far as I'm concerned the DVLA has made a mistake - we'll see what they say as I'm awaiting a reply.

Obviously they are travelling seats so yes, a mistake has obviously been made somewhere but don't automatically assume it's on the part of the DVLA. When the dealer initially registers the vehicle they fill in a form to send to the DVLA with all the important information about the vehicle on it. The V5 is generated based on the information on this form. The number of travelling seats is one of the things that has to be declared on the form. If some numpty at the dealers put 2 in that box instead of 4 then that's the number the DVLA will give you on the V5.

Good luck getting it sorted either way (y)
 

MC 55 FUN

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Toxicbunny

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I was told by the dealer I did not need rear seatbelts the kids could sit side facing.

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pappajohn

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When the dealer initially registers the vehicle they fill in a form to send to the DVLA with all the important information about the vehicle on it. The V5 is generated based on the information on this form
The very same reason why there are so many 3500kg plus motorhomes registered as PLG vehicles.
Ignorant or unscrupulous dealers

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Deleted member 29692

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I realise that now but I have no seat belts on the rear facing seats either. Im wondering how or where we can get them fitted

You won't be able to get them fitted unless there are proper anchor points in place to fit them to. If the converter never intended for those seats to be travelling ones then it probably won't have those anchor points.

If the anchor points are there then the seat belts will need to be professionally fitted and the DVLA will require quite a bit of documentation before they change the registration.

You should probably get some advice from a Swift dealer.
 
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Deleted member 29692

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Ignorant or unscrupulous dealers

I did wonder if an unscrupulous dealer, knowing that a particular model had a weight/payload problem would deliberately register it with 2 travelling seats because they know that carrying 4 people would put it overweight.

Not suggesting that's what has happened here. Just wondering in general.
 

pappajohn

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I did wonder if an unscrupulous dealer, knowing that a particular model had a weight/payload problem would deliberately register it with 2 travelling seats because they know that carrying 4 people would put it overweight.

Not suggesting that's what has happened here. Just wondering in general.
Quite possibly.
I was thinking PHGV registered as PLG to drive on a standard car (B) licence.
To many 7500kg RVs registered as 3500kg (PLG) to be the odd mistake by a registering dealer.
 
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Toxicbunny

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You won't be able to get them fitted unless there are proper anchor points in place to fit them to. If the converter never intended for those seats to be travelling ones then it probably won't have those anchor points.

If the anchor points are there then the seat belts will need to be professionally fitted and the DVLA will require quite a bit of documentation before they change the registration.

You should probably get some advice from a Swift dealer.

There does not seem to be any anchor points. I was told that it was safe for my kids to sit in the rear with no belts so this is untrue it was from a dealership so where does this leave me now as obviously the MH is no good for my family.
 
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There does not seem to be any anchor points. I was told that it was safe for my kids to sit in the rear with no belts so this is untrue it was from a dealership so where does this leave me now as obviously the MH is no good for my family.

If the dealer told you that your kids could travel in the sideways facing seats and this is why you chose that van you could have a case for rejecting it as unfit for purpose. You'd need to be talking to a solicitor about that and it will get messy.

I meant speak to a different Swift dealer about whether or not retrofitting seatbelts to the forward facing seats is an option or not.

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pappajohn

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There does not seem to be any anchor points. I was told that it was safe for my kids to sit in the rear with no belts so this is untrue it was from a dealership so where does this leave me now as obviously the MH is no good for my family.
Again, the salesman will tell you what you want to hear if theres a sale at stake.
 

pappajohn

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Seatbelts can be fitted, you just need a good garage to fit them.

Even if they aren't recognised in law they will be better than none at all.
I doubt VOSA or the police would be interested at a roadside check as long as they are there and being used.
 
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There does not seem to be any anchor points. I was told that it was safe for my kids to sit in the rear with no belts so this is untrue it was from a dealership so where does this leave me now as obviously the MH is no good for my family.
Did you not realise yourself, that it was not safe for your kids to sit in the rear , without seat belts?
Some say it's not illegal to carry passengers unbelted in the back in an older van, but it's certainly not safe.
Good luck in taking it back, it could be your word against theirs.
We bought a 4 belted and needed 5 for our first van. Retro fitted a rear facing lap belt to a seat. ( bolted into the metal chassis ) We didn't want a lounge like a train carriage, so decided on that route.

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Toxicbunny

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Did you not realise yourself, that it was not safe for your kids to sit in the rear , without seat belts?
Some say it's not illegal to carry passengers unbelted in the back in an older van, but it's certainly not safe.
Good luck in taking it back, it could be
your word against theirs.
We bought a 4 belted and needed 5 for our first van. Retro fitted a rear facing lap belt to a seat. ( bolted into the metal chassis ) We didn't want a lounge like a train carriage, so decided on that route.
Yes , I asked the question regard seatbelts to the dealer on more than one
occasion due to the MH being used. I had my kids there and was told seatbelts were not needed in the rear. Seatbelt laws are different depending on vehicles and ages of them so no I was not aware that that they were needed.
 

Cal54

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@MH 55 FUN , don't hold your breath about the DVLA making the changes to your V5 document; I notified them that my PVC was listed as the wrong colour on my V5 when I received it But they said only the manufacturer/converter could notify the change. It was brand new and had never in its life been white - it's blue. Needless to say I have just attached their letter to the V5 for future reference.
 

MC 55 FUN

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@MH 55 FUN , don't hold your breath about the DVLA making the changes to your V5 document; I notified them that my PVC was listed as the wrong colour on my V5 when I received it But they said only the manufacturer/converter could notify the change. It was brand new and had never in its life been white - it's blue. Needless to say I have just attached their letter to the V5 for future reference.

Thankfully for us it's only a matter of principle as we only use the half dinette travelling seats to secure our little dog. We did, however have one eye on resale as in our opinion genuine 4 berth with 4 legal travelling seats would be more desirable. :)

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