No overnight parking signs (1 Viewer)

[irnbru]

How do we know if these signs are legal or not? Should they gave a bylaw number or something?

 

[IanF]

Very little in Dundee used to be legal!lol

 

[dave newell]

I live by a few simple rules, one of which is "if a sign is present saying don't do something then take the sign at face value and don't do it". Its not difficult.

D.

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[Robert Clark]

Legal or not - you're not welcome
I never stayed where I wasn't wanted
Except at our house

 

[laird of Dunstan]

take a battery operated disc cutter and chop the sign off,blame it on the Itinerants

 

[andy63]

Hi sandra. You will know that a lot of the natives ignore the majority of those signs .. and if it's away from the built up area I most probably would too...
If you are up that way why not use the map provided by the smwc ...loads of places round there.
Ta andy

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[Crusty jack]

No, that sign is only a request; if it seemed that we wouldn't be inconveniencing anyone we would decline the request and overnight there. Toby n Suzy Trux.

 

[irnbru]

Hi sandra. You will know that a lot of the natives ignore the majority of those signs .. and if it's away from the built up area I most probably would too...
If you are up that way why not use the map provided by the smwc ...loads of places round there.
Ta andy

That's exactly where I found the spot. It's right on the beach near nothing

 

[irnbru]

A lo

I live by a few simple rules, one of which is "if a sign is present saying don't do something then take the sign at face value and don't do it". Its not difficult.

D.

A lot of the signs in Scotland were found to be erected illegally and councils were made to remove them. I just wonder if this one is legal or not.

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[BusyBuilder]

In Scotland all the lay by signs saying no overnight stops were removed.

 

[chaser]

If it says no parking , I would say best thing is don't park

 

[irnbru]

In Scotland all the lay by signs saying no overnight stops were removed.

Not them all. Some are still legal.

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[irnbru]

If it says no parking , I would say best thing is don't park

If I thought it was legal I wouldnt but Im not so sure the sign is so Im stopping.

 

[BreweryDave]

Put your chairs out and awning up and fire up the barbie. You're camping - not parking.......

 

[****]

Just do as it says.

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[Bobby22]

5.0 Legality of Signs

Black on yellow ‘No Parking Overnight’ signs are not covered by a traffic regulation order. Non prescribed signs such as this require special approval from the Scottish Ministers but there is no record of them having received any such authorisation.

An enforceable prohibition of parking would require an appropriate Traffic Regulation Order with signs and lines that comply with the Traffic Signs regulations and General Directions.

Taken from Andy Strangeways website.

I'm pretty sure the signs in the main loch front carpark in Fort William have the regulation part beside them.

Still ignored them and wasn't disturbed.........along with Fritz

 

[andy63]

That's exactly where I found the spot. It's right on the beach near nothing

Should be fine then... use it...
The no overnight signs that were challange were in the Highland council area and the roadside lay bys. .. There are areas where that is been put right with the necessary by laws like the beach at durnoch and the pending ban at loch lomond... The man that knows is Graham. ..but as I said earlier , I know of quite a few locations where sinage exists and is ignored but they are largely in more remote areas..
At the St Andrews meet last wk end there was quite a bit of bad feeling to the meet from locals... but really don't know why... The place was left spotless and the local chippy got in excess of £500 order on Saturday night... not to mention the pub trade and my £30 parking fine in the town..

 

[irnbru]

At the St Andrews meet last wk end there was quite a bit of bad feeling to the meet from locals... but really don't know why... The place was left spotless and the local chippy got in excess of £500 order on Saturday night... not to mention the pub trade and my £30 parking fine in the town..

No wonder the locals complained. Wild camping is hardly a congregation of 46 mhs on the beach. Its meant to be discreet.

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[andy63]

No wonder the locals complained. Wild camping is hardly a congregation of 46 mhs on the beach. Its meant to be discreet.

It was an organised meet by the W forum.. at least the 2nd one that I know of... local council informed and even put on rubbish collection for us so they obviously approved

 

[sdc77]

It was an organised meet by the W forum.. at least the 2nd one that I know of... local council informed and even put on rubbish collection for us so they obviously approved

You would think they would take the locals views into account before approving. That's a lot of vans.

 

[Debs]

You would think they would take the locals views into account before approving. That's a lot of vans.

Wonder if the locals were informed though?...

..not sure what the 'traveller' situation is like in Scotland but if a large number of vans appeared round here they would be assumed to be the dreaded Itinerants.

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[John & Joan]

You would think they would take the locals views into account before approving. That's a lot of vans.

If the organisation hold paragraph 6 exemption status they simply have to have the land owners permission, not the councils, to hold a rally for up to 5 days duration. This forum and Wildcamping hold such exempt status. There is no limit on the number of vans that can be present at a para 6 rally. For longer Para 4 rallies (up to 28 days) the council have to be consulted.

 

[John & Joan]

Wonder if the locals were informed though?...

..not sure what the 'traveller' situation is like in Scotland but if a large number of vans appeared round here they would be assumed to be the dreaded Itinerants.

The Traveller situation is no different in Scotland to the rest of the UK. Locals do not have to be informed. The only time locals have to be informed is if a (5 van) paragraph 5 site is seeking to be established. Then the Council and the locals have to be given 28 days notice to lodge comments or complaints. It is the club that grants the exemption not the council in these cases.

 

[gus-lopez]

Wonder if the locals were informed though?...

..not sure what the 'traveller' situation is like in Scotland but if a large number of vans appeared round here they would be assumed to be the dreaded Itinerants.

They are easy to spot as they have no number plates usually.

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[John & Joan]

How do we know if these signs are legal or not? Should they gave a bylaw number or something?View attachment 95075

I like Graham have contacted every local authority.
Their reply to an FOI request was:
"Dundee City Council only employ one person to work on the TROs, I regret to advise that we do not have the resources to provide copies of the TRO’s."

TROs must be published and copies made available. Without them being available for inspection no TRO can legally be enforceable.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/operational-guidance-to-local-authorities-parking-policy-and-enforcement

The legislation can be viewed at:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents/made
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/1215/contents/made

The only legal signs are in the Traffic Signs Design Guidance Regulations or authorised my the minister for state.

However although the sign may not be legal it shows there has been some issue to cause the sign to be erected.

 

[Khizzie]

They are easy to spot as they have no number plates usually.

Or someone else's plates..!!

 

[sdc77]

The Traveller situation is no different in Scotland to the rest of the UK. Locals do not have to be informed. The only time locals have to be informed is if a (5 van) paragraph 5 site is seeking to be established. Then the Council and the locals have to be given 28 days notice to lodge comments or complaints. It is the club that grants the exemption not the council in these cases.

The reason I asked if the locals had been informed as the local authority provided rubbish service.
I don't think I'd be too happy if that amount of vans turned up near us and got the councils blessing tbh

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[John & Joan]

The reason I asked if the locals had been informed as the local authority provided rubbish service.
I don't think I'd be too happy if that amount of vans turned up near us and got the councils blessing tbh

This is the info produced by DEFRA (Natural England) (2015). So it is quite regulated, not just a free for all.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/camping...-certificates-know-the-rules-and-how-to-apply

Your club is eligible for an exemption if:

• it’s properly formed and has a constitution
• the aims of your club include promoting leisure activities
• the certificate will only be used by your club and its members
• you can make sure members will abide by the rules of the certificate

Your club also needs to:

• have a formal code of conduct for your members
• show evidence of experience in running campsites
• supervise and manage all sites that members use
• nominate a member to keep the exemption certificate and be able to produce it when necessary

Club meetings or rallies exemption (Caravan)
This is known as a paragraph 6 exemption.

With this exemption, your club can use a site for club meetings, rallies or events. These meetings need to:

1. last no longer than 5 days
2. be supervised by a member of the club
3. be open to members only

Your local council can remove your exemption, for example if they receive complaints.

In supervising the site you have to make arrangements for Drinking Water, Disposal of Grey and Black Water as well as Dry Rubbish. Noise etc. has to be controlled. The name of the exempted organisation and the location of the person supervising has to be displayed.

 

[grumps147]

When travellers turn up near us, as well as starting removal procedures, the council sometimes put a skip out to help alleviate later cleaning costs. It never completely avoids cleaning, but if it all went on the ground! This in no way endorses any form of approval by the council. Dare I suggest it sounds like a common sense approach.

 

[andy63]

I've listing to points raised on this subject from people who would not wish to cause any problems to those that would go out of their way to do as they wish...
If you choose to park on land and refuse to move if asked....what can they do???? Is it right that that they can only resort to a court order to force you to move ??? If that's the case they can be gone long before that's gained and have achieved what thew wanted... A night or two stopover... Only asking because that's the sort of reasoning I've heard from some and not saying i support that view...Just want to know if that's factually correct..
Ta andy

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