2nd Battery - Put it Outside or Inside ? (1 Viewer)

Feb 5, 2009
677
783
South Essex
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15 in MH, 15 in Caravan
Hi Everyone

I have a 2008 registered CI Carioca 746 and as we seem so much nowdays to be ending up on CL sites without EHU, I want to add a second leisure battery (and maybe later, a third). All fine there you would assume, its been done many times, and pretty much common practice, so what's the problem I hear you ask....

Well, having searched & read lots of previous posts on the subject, my question is "should I locate the second leisure battery outside the 'van (on some sort of cradle/platform) or inside (in an existing storage locker) ?". The reasons for asking being these:
1) The first leisure battery is already outside, under the chassis on a dedicated wind-out cradle.
2) With the van being only 5 months old, I'm not over-keen on modd'ing the 'van too much.
3) I have a second battery available (same make/model/capacity/age) sitting doing nothing
4) Don't have a massive amount floor level storage available inside.

So, I see my decision being based on the following advantages/disdvantages, but I'm not really sure which ones are the most important ones ie. would I be breaking "golden rules" if I incorrectly ignored them...

Outside - Advantages
1) Potentially closer to first battery/Shorter cable run (inside location could be up to 4m away).
2) No cable holes in motorhome floor - and therefore no potential future warranty complications or possible leaks
3) No storage room taken up

Outside - Disadvantages
1) No easy place to put them eg. would need a suitable cradle/box/platform
2) Battery open to the elements & road damage
3) Harder for maintenance (although batteries I have are maintenance free)

My gut feelling is to try to put them outside, but inside definitely seems easier. So, if you were me, what would you do ?

Thanks

Steve
 
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pappajohn

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if there is a place underneath to fit a cradle you could fit the battery in a 'made for purpose' plastic battery box to protect it from the elements...

Gaffa tape the lid joint and grommeted cable and vent tube holes or seal holes with silicon.
 
M

Mike-H

Deleted User
Is there room under the drivers seat? I have 2 x 75ah maintenance free batteries fitted snugly under mine.

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EssexBoy
Feb 5, 2009
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Thanks Mike...

Did cross my mind, but my batteries are 110a/h and a bit big to go under the seat, plus, would still have the problem of getting the cables from outside to inside...

Cheers

Steve
 
M

Mike-H

Deleted User
Under the passenger seat then? You don`t need to wire the extra battery directly to the external one. You could add a new battery connection to the control/fuse box.

p.s. other disadvantages of external battery:

Doesnt perform as well when cold.

Might get stolen/damaged.
 
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Douglas

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Aug 22, 2008
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I'm not to sure what chassis you have but your photo shows Ducato/Boxer type van,

You say that its new so you may not be keen on doing what I have done.


Between the drivers door and the front of the rear spring hanger I welded reinforcing pads with attachment cleats to take a frame, the frame hold 6 X 50 amp/hour batteries, the batteries are very close to the bottom of the base floor so I made it so that 2 small hydraulic jacks can be placed into purpose built sockets on the frame to lift up and down the frame complete with batteries for servicing, of the batteries are the sealed type that is not necessary very often.

I did something similar to the other side where I fitted a 70 ltr gas tank.

Doug..

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EssexBoy
Feb 5, 2009
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Under the passenger seat then? You don`t need to wire the extra battery directly to the external one. You could add a new battery connection to the control/fuse box.

p.s. other disadvantages of external battery:

Doesnt perform as well when cold.

Might get stolen/damaged.

Ahhhh... So if I've got it right, I'd keep my extra battery inboard, and break into the wires from the battery going to the Control Panel... something like this ?
 
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EssexBoy
Feb 5, 2009
677
783
South Essex
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I'm not to sure what chassis you have but your photo shows Ducato/Boxer type van,

You say that its new so you may not be keen on doing what I have done.


Between the drivers door and the front of the rear spring hanger I welded reinforcing pads with attachment cleats to take a frame, the frame hold 6 X 50 amp/hour batteries, the batteries are very close to the bottom of the base floor so I made it so that 2 small hydraulic jacks can be placed into purpose built sockets on the frame to lift up and down the frame complete with batteries for servicing, of the batteries are the sealed type that is not necessary very often.

I did something similar to the other side where I fitted a 70 ltr gas tank.

Doug..

Thanks Doug... Great idea, would be the ideal solution, but I guess that would be just a bit beyond me, I'm afraid...
 
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EssexBoy
Feb 5, 2009
677
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South Essex
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Great... Thank you... Has put my mind very much at ease...

Now if I may, perhaps I could trouble you with a few practicalities of this set-up please...

1) I'm pretty hands on, so would be confident in wiring this system up, but considering potential future warranty issues etc that come with a relatively new 'van, would you do the work yourself, or have done by the dealer ?
2) The locker I have in mind for the 2nd battery would mean a cable run of about 4m (maybe even 5m by the time it goes "round the houses"), so as I'm aware that bigger cable means lower voltage loss, what would be your suggested cable size ?
3) I need to fuse the tail connections at the 2nd battery, and I think I remember somewhere you saying you use 35A. Would this do for me too ?
4) At the point where I break in to the 1st battery -> Control Panel cable, any suggestions/best practice for the connection ie. soldered, crimped etc.

Thanks again

Steve
 

pappajohn

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Aug 26, 2007
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Mmmm!!!!

warranty could be a problem whether its done at a dealers or you do it.
they may not appreciate you cutting into the wiring loom.
much better to connect battery to battery if possible but i can see the problem with the 1st battery being outside the van but the wires have to come inside somewhere and you could feed the new ones through the same hole and reseal it.

soldered joints prefered to ensure a good contact if you go the loom option.

5 mtr run.....i'd go for 100amp cable...dont know what gauge that would be but pretty big. i use 50amp but mine are closer together.

i use 35amp fuses 'cos im too tight to buy the big 100amp ones...about a fiver each i think:Eeek: and i figure im not going to pull much more than 35 anyway.
normally 2amps or so total for ALL led lighting,
3 or 4amps for the TV/sat box,
10 to 15amp for the water pump,
X amps(?) for the warm air fan. (not used much as its crap)
the only thing i could have trouble with is the 500w invertor but its been ok so far as only used for light loads.

fuse at both ends of the live cable at least and as close as possible to the batteries.
if you have only one then a short will blow the fuse but the other end will still be live from the other battery.

 
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EssexBoy
Feb 5, 2009
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Thanks Pappajohn...

Looks like I'll still need to have a think about where I put the extra battery, as putting it in the locker I had in mind means a HUGE cable... :whatthe:

So, I guess I need to get the extra battery no more than 1m away - either inside or outside the 'van...

Mmmmmmm.....

Time to put thinking cap on again ....:RollEyes:

Cheers

Steve

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M

Mike-H

Deleted User
Steve, Your diagram wouldn`t load for me but PappaJohn gives it the thumbs up and he knows what he`s talking about :thumb:

As for connections and warranty, I`d go for something that can be totally removed leaving no trace should you ever need to make a warranty claim.

If you`re at all unsure about electrics get someone qualified to do the work. :Smile:
 

scotjimland

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Jul 25, 2007
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My gut feelling is to try to put them outside, but inside definitely seems easier.

Hi Steve

I think you answered your own question, mounting inside MAY be easier but defiantely NOT the best solution.

My advice is to mount outside as close as possible to the other battery, running long cables between batteries is best avoided, even with heavy cable the volt drop will affect charging and discouraging cycles leading to loss of useful capacity. It may be more work but you only do it once.

If you do go down the inside route use 25 sq. mm cable and as pappa advised fused at both ends.

Jim
 
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EssexBoy
Feb 5, 2009
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Thanks Jim & Mike-H...

I just nipped out and had another quick look at the 'van again, and as I definitely think the "remove & leave no trace" install is the right thing to do, outside mounting is my best option...

So, all I need to do then is source some sourt of of tray/box/cage to mount underneath :whatthe:... Now, not wanting to go down the so-bespoke & permanent route suggested by dougcumiskey, and having been unsuccesful in the brief search for something suitable so far, do you think I am I looking for something that doesn't exist "off the shelf" ? Or am I maybe not looking in the right places ?

I'm a time-served mech eng, so am happy to knock something into shape, just wary of getting too complicated & "special"...

Any thoughts please ?

Thanks again

Steve

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EssexBoy
Feb 5, 2009
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Hi Jim

Here's a couple of pictures of the underside of the 'van...

Looks relatively easy to do...

If I keep the cable run to about 1.5m-2m, would I still need 25mm sq ?

Thanks

Steve
 

scotjimland

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Jul 25, 2007
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Hi Jim

Here's a couple of pictures of the underside of the 'van...

Looks relatively easy to do...

If I keep the cable run to about 1.5m-2m, would I still need 25mm sq ?

Thanks

Steve

Hi Seve

yes, use the same size cable ..

good luck .. I see why you were looking for an alternative solution inside ..

Jim

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EssexBoy
Feb 5, 2009
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15 in MH, 15 in Caravan
Thanks Jim...

I think its not too difficult to achieve, its just a lot of "pigging about" for such a simple result...:Doh:

Still, I'll have a bash, and if push comes to shove, then I'll just have to invest in that 220ah battery to replace the existing 110ah instead... however much that would pain me.... especially as that would mean using the money I was hoping to put toward a solar panel...:Sad:

Anyway, thanks again...

Steve
 
S

sinbad1

Deleted User
Just a thought is it not possible to make a compartment between those beams to house both batteries and fabricate a trapdoor in the floor to gain access from within the van?

regards
 
M

Mike-H

Deleted User
I`d be looking at buying another cradle the same as you have and mounting it alongside if you`re set on it being outside. Have you been back to the dealer you bought it from to see if the can help?

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Frankia

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Sep 24, 2007
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Years ago we had the old CI Mizar which had the leisure battery mounted "outside" and was accessed via a lift up door in the skirt. It also sat in a cradle very similar to the one in your piccy. on the other side of the 'van there was a second lift up door with nothing at all behind it. Is it the same on your 'van?

If so it may be possible to get a matching cradle for that side and mount your second battery there - you would still need a 2.5m cable run to join the two batteries together (heavy cable and fused both ends). If there is no door the space may be available and a cradle with a SFL (sealed for life) battery could be used.

As has been mentioned before the current battery placing is not ideal as it is open to the elements and in winter months it will bee the cold which will give you the most problems as batteries perform a lot better when kept around 20 + degrees so how about a rethink and bring both batteries inside and sitting them together in a warm under seat box (you would still have to drill a hole to allow gasses to vent).

By the way the daftest battery position I have seen was also on a CI (Roller Team) - It was under the cooker, at the back, in an under slung plastic box (the battery was below floor level). It was almost impossible to remove (removed it with two strong blokes laying on the floor and 2 bits of rope painstakingly eased under the battery) and had not been topped up in 3 years because the owner couldn't see what he was doing in the compartment.
 

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