Importing a N&B Arto need info on speedo changes (1 Viewer)

[ANDY400R]

I am trying to purchase a N&B Arto 79F from France and need some info on making it legal and ready for registration please.
I believe there are 3 main things that need changing, dipping of the lights, fog light and speedo to read MPH.
Having checked the motorhome this week it appears to have a fog light either side on the rear so this should be ok, the dealer says he can change the dipping of the headlights so again should be ok although I'm not sure how this is done.
But the one that's causing me to worry is the speedo, the dealer says it can be changed to show miles instead of km on the trip and that it changes the speedo to indicate MPH on the dial although the dial is labelled KPH only.
So 2 questions please
1) is the dealer correct in saying that it will indicate MPH on the KPH dial (he wasn't convincing but may have been the language barrier)
2) is that sufficient for UK requirements or must the speedo be marked up in MPH.
I know Lockwoods can supply an overlay but if the dealer is correct is it necessary? Or would the dealer be able to order a UK MPH dial from N&B in Polch and fit it prior to collection.( my prefered option if it needs changing)

Thanks in advance for any help,

 

[funflair]

The headlight change should just be a matter of rotating the unit in its housing.

Sure somebody else will come along about the speedo, but I think it's easy.

Martin

 

[Mr Mousy]

Our lhd Hymer has the main dial in kph and a digital display that can swap between kph and mph. It is registered okay at the dvla and passed its mot okay.

@ANDY400R

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[Badknee]

I have an overlay on my Eunos, works brilliantly.

 

[ANDY400R]

I didn't see a digital display of the speed but had limited time as there was much to check out on the motorhome. All the dealer showed me was the trip changing from km to miles but he said that would also change the main dial speedo to indicate MPH.
Feel like I need to find a definitive answer before closing the deal.

 

[funflair]

Worth pointing out for anybody not sure the Arto is on Fiat chassis.

Martin

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[funflair]

Our lhd Hymer has the main dial in kph and a digital display that can swap between kph and mph. It is registered okay at the dvla and passed its mot okay.

@ANDY400R

Mr Mousy are you on Merc or Fiat?

Martin

 

[Lenny HB]

For the Fiat you can get a replacement dial from Broken Link Removed, there are several versions make sure you get the right one, take a photo of the dial after turning the ignition on so you can see all the warning lights. The dealer is talking about the odometer not the dial, which can be changed between kpm & mph.
The dipped headlamps will be hella projector lamps, there is a lever on the back of the unit that you turn to set them to flat dipping.

 

[Speve]

For the Fiat you can get a replacement dial from Broken Link Removed, there are several versions make sure you get the right one, take a photo of the dial after turning the ignition on so you can see all the warning lights. The dealer is talking about the odometer not the dial, which can be changed between kpm & mph.
The dipped headlamps will be hella projector lamps, there is a lever on the back of the unit that you turn to set them to flat dipping.

Yes the dial is quite easy to change I recently had our Exsis instrument cluster changed due to a fault as an import it was of course changed when it came into UK.its just a plastic replacement dial I have the original KM dial in case I decide to sell in Europe.

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[jongood]

The dipped headlamps will be hella projector lamps, there is a lever on the back of the unit that you turn to set them to flat dipping.

You would think so wouldnt you, but on all the artos Ive seen and both the ones Ive owned, altering the headlamps is a manual process exactly as martin says, 3 self tapping screws.

 

[Sheddy]

The Hella lights on our 2012 base fiat are not flat beam they are either Left or Right driving and were adjusted by removing the top screw on the back completely, and loosening the 2 other screws in slots by about 5mm. The rear part of the light assembly can then be pulled out to the 5mm slack and rotated to the opposite end of the slots, the top screw is refitted and all screws retightened, the process may well cause some movement in the lamp mounting brackets and the lights may have to be adjusted, on ours the adjuster needed a 7mm socket.
Cheers

 

[Jenben]

We've just gone through the same process following help and advice from the forum (thanks to @lennyhb and @Judgemental ). The Lockwood dials are easy to fit with good instructions. The finished result is identical to a UK speedo. 10 min job but a bit nerve wracking on an expensive new vehicle
Our dealer in Belgium offered to take the van to his Fiat dealer to do the change if I brought a dial with me, but I ended up doing it myself anyway.
You will then need a local MOT station or garage to certify all the changes have been done.
Feel free to PM me if you're still unsure. Also I can give you a copy of the letter I got the Mot station to write which the Certification agency accepted with no problem.

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[Clarky]

On our LHD Carthago you can't see the left hand side (the important bit) of the speedo because of reflections. If your N+B is the same, which I assume it will be, it won't make any difference if the display is KPH or MPH. Just use a sat-nav as the speedo.
Our van was purchased new in the UK but the speedo is still in KPH. I'm told that it is quite legal and will pass its MOT when it's three years old.
I hope!!!

Richard.

 

[Jenben]

@Clarky Not sure how your van got registered in the UK if its relatively recent. Whether it passes an MOT will be up to the test centre. My understanding is that it shouldn't under the new rules, but most don't check. Our friends have a 10 yr old van with MPH stickers on the front of the speedo which gets through OK.

New vans definitely won't be accepted by the VCA/ DVLA without proof a full mph speedo is fitted. It's only £50/10 mins to switch it anyway.

 

[Judge Mental]

I am trying to purchase a N&B Arto 79F from France and need some info on making it legal and ready for registration please.
I believe there are 3 main things that need changing, dipping of the lights, fog light and speedo to read MPH.
Having checked the motorhome this week it appears to have a fog light either side on the rear so this should be ok, the dealer says he can change the dipping of the headlights so again should be ok although I'm not sure how this is done.
But the one that's causing me to worry is the speedo, the dealer says it can be changed to show miles instead of km on the trip and that it changes the speedo to indicate MPH on the dial although the dial is labelled KPH only.
So 2 questions please
1) is the dealer correct in saying that it will indicate MPH on the KPH dial (he wasn't convincing but may have been the language barrier)
2) is that sufficient for UK requirements or must the speedo be marked up in MPH.
I know Lockwoods can supply an overlay but if the dealer is correct is it necessary? Or would the dealer be able to order a UK MPH dial from N&B in Polch and fit it prior to collection.( my prefered option if it needs changing)

Thanks in advance for any help,

You need to change it for VCA/MOT inspection. And to comply with UK construction and use regs

Get dealer to take photo of speedo with lights on (many different ones with different warnings) send photo to Lockwood who will post directly to dealer..get him to do something for his money

Lovely choice of van ..did you get a better deal in France. How are you handling insurance getting it home...

Eddie

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[Lenny HB]

F

You would think so wouldnt you, but on all the artos Ive seen and both the ones Ive owned, altering the headlamps is a manual process exactly as martin says, 3 self tapping screws.

That is how they were on the old units since about 2007 you just need to flip a lever.

The Hella lights on our 2012 base fiat are not flat beam they are either Left or Right driving and were adjusted by removing the top screw on the back completely, and loosening the 2 other screws in slots by about 5mm.

Nope I am sure if you check them they are only adjustable between Flat beam or right kick up, they are the standard Hella projector lights. For adjustment see my comments above.

@Judgemental ). The finished result is identical to a UK speedo.

No, it's not it's far better, it has the KM markings in white, far easier to read than the red ones on a Fiat dial.

On our LHD Carthago you can't see the left hand side (the important bit) of the speedo because of reflections. If your N+B is the same, which I assume it will be, it won't make any difference if the display is KPH or MPH. Just use a sat-nav as the speedo.
Our van was purchased new in the UK but the speedo is still in KPH. I'm told that it is quite legal and will pass its MOT when it's three years old.
I hope!!! Richard.

Not possible to register a vehicle unless it has a speedo marked in MPH.

Quote from VCA form:-
That a speedometer has been fitted which is capable of indicating speed in both miles per hour and
kilometres per hour, either simultaneously, or by operation of a switch.
Note: We can not accept secondary devices, hand written changes or multiple stickers applied to the
speedometer. We can only accept the changes detailed below.
The speedometer must be marked up to the maximum speed of the vehicle, with graduations at 1, 2, 5, or
10mph, and with values at intervals not exceeding 20mph. For this change we can accept the following
options.
a) That the factory fitted speedometer is dual marked as standard
b) The existing (digital) speedometer is, permanently, re-programmed, through a standard feature of the
vehicle, to display the vehicle speed in mph
c) A miles per hour speedometer is fitted in-place of the factory fitted unit
d) A professional, single, miles per hour, overlay is applied directly to the speedometer face plate, not the
glass front plate (the overlay must be durable and accurate, with markings visible in both day and night
driving conditions).
e) A dual marked dial / facia has been added as a replacement to the factory fitted one

 

[Clarky]

Not possible to register a vehicle unless it has a speedo marked in MPH.

Our Carthago wasn't a personal import but was purchased from a UK dealer.
My understanding is that the standard Carthago complies with the UK construction and use regs so doesn't require any further checks when registered by a dealer.
I also understand, but am ready to be corrected, that when it comes to MOT time the vehicle has been registered and in use in the UK for three years so the KPH on the speedo will not cause a failure.

As we do more miles (kilometres) in Europe than we do in the UK I wasn't too bothered about changing the speedo.

Richard.

 

[Clarky]

c) A miles per hour speedometer is fitted in-place of the factory fitted unit

How about a Sat-nav mounted on the top of the dash? Would that qualify as a MPH speedometer?
More accurate than the original speedo.

Richard.

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[Sheddy]

Nope I am sure if you check them they are only adjustable between Flat beam or right kick up, they are the standard Hella projector lights. For adjustment see my comments above

I did the adjustment myself in my local mot garage and I can assure you that the beam kicked up both sides as I saw on the beam calibration unit on the ramp.
Cheers

 

[Jenben]

I appreciate what you are saying @Clarky and like you we do most of our driving in Europe.

From what I understand @ANDY400R is personally importing and so he will need to ensure his vehicle conforms with the VCA/DVLA requirements as outlined above in @lennyhb post. We imported from Belgium last month and we managed to complete our registration in just two weeks.

 

[Judge Mental]

Just because you think so dont make it legal

Speedometers
35.—(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3), every motor vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer which, if the vehicle is first used on or after 1st April 1984, shall be capable of indicating speed in both miles per hour and kilometres per hour, either simultaneously or, by the operation of a switch, separately.

shall like must is a legal obligation in UK law

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/35/made

Its only a few quid...

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[funflair]

But further down it says,

(3) Instead of complying with paragraph (1) a vehicle may comply with Community Directive 75/443 or with ECE Regulation 39.

The vehicles we are talking about were constructed to European regs not UK construction regs, I believe the Community directive does not require MPH and trumps paragraph 35.--(1)

Martin

 

[Judge Mental]

But further down it says,

(3) Instead of complying with paragraph (1) a vehicle may comply with Community Directive 75/443 or with ECE Regulation 39.

The vehicles we are talking about were constructed to European regs not UK construction regs, I believe the Community directive does not require MPH and trumps paragraph 35.--(1)

Martin

muddying the water.....Have a look at @lennyhb earlier quote from VCA then try and get a van through this test...... Lazy dealers get away with it as they self certify. I have imported and registered 9 vehicles and never has the speedo not been checked

 

[Lenny HB]

But further down it says,

(3) Instead of complying with paragraph (1) a vehicle may comply with Community Directive 75/443 or with ECE Regulation 39.

The vehicles we are talking about were constructed to European regs not UK construction regs, I believe the Community directive does not require MPH and trumps paragraph 35.--(1)

Martin

If you had read my earlier post, post No. 16, yiou will see that I have quoted from the VCA application form and it clearly states you MUST have a speedo that reads MPH, without it you can't get a VCA Certificate and without a VCA certificate you CAN NOT register a vehicle.

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[Mr B]

On our LHD Carthago you can't see the left hand side (the important bit) of the speedo because of reflections. If your N+B is the same, which I assume it will be, it won't make any difference if the display is KPH or MPH. Just use a sat-nav as the speedo.
Our van was purchased new in the UK but the speedo is still in KPH. I'm told that it is quite legal and will pass its MOT when it's three years old.
I hope!!!

Richard.

I think Clarky is correct in what he says as he has already got his v5 for his cathargo.. As it's an brand new import done by a dealer..So mot time will be ok.
As for Andy400r, he is importing (used I think)for himself for the 1st time and we all know that the biggest hurdle is the old VCA and ticking all there boxes.
I had the problem of the speedo, not in obtaining/fitting the mph dial, just getting the correct wording for the letter.....
Even my mot tester said it was a load of tosh what you had to do. There not bothered about kph/mph/ warp factor or what when they do the test. As long as it's got something that indicates your speed..
It's the v5 that is king in my opinion.

 

[DABurleigh]

Martin may well be right, but having imported my own Flair, good luck with the VCA on a new import! Looking at my dealings with dealer, insurers, HMRC, local garage, Vanbitz for insurer's security requirements, VCA and DVLA, they were all pussycats apart from the VCA, who were bureaucratic and tardy beyond belief, doubling the time it took to get the truck registered and legal.

Dave

 

[Mr B]

Martin may well be right, but having imported my own Flair, good luck with the VCA on a new import! Looking at my dealings with dealer, insurers, HMRC, local garage, Vanbitz for insurer's security requirements, VCA and DVLA, they were all pussycats apart from the VCA, who were bureaucratic and tardy beyond belief, doubling the time it took to get the truck registered and legal.

Dave

To true

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[Judge Mental]

I think a bit of perspective is called for.....You are importing a van worth 10's of 1000's and arguing about a speedo overlay that costs from £50..seriously?lol

 

[Lenny HB]

I did the adjustment myself in my local mot garage and I can assure you that the beam kicked up both sides as I saw on the beam calibration unit on the ramp.
Cheers

From the Hella Motorhome lighting brochure.

 

[Lenny HB]

I think Clarky is correct in what he says as he has already got his v5 for his cathargo.. As it's an brand new import done by a dealer..So mot time will be ok.
As for Andy400r, he is importing (used I think)for himself for the 1st time and we all know that the biggest hurdle is the old VCA and ticking all there boxes.
I had the problem of the speedo, not in obtaining/fitting the mph dial, just getting the correct wording for the letter.....
Even my mot tester said it was a load of tosh what you had to do. There not bothered about kph/mph/ warp factor or what when they do the test. As long as it's got something that indicates your speed..
It's the v5 that is king in my opinion.

If that is the case it has been registered illegally, how would you stand in an RTA and the police picked up on it, it could give your insurance company a get out. Not worth the risk for 50 quid on a van costing 50 - 100k or more.
If I was in @Clarky position I would change it only 50 quid and a few minutes work.