A-frames vs trailers again, sorry! (1 Viewer)

Roadracer2002

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I must apologise in advance for this posting as I am hoping for a deluge of opinion and advice regarding the A-frame/Trailer debate.

Firstly, some pre-requisites;

My plan is to tour the UK throughout next year and tow a Smart Fortwo behind the motorhome. I have no plans to go to Europe with a towed car at the moment and my thoughts are that as Europe is generally more motorhome friendly a car may be unnecessary for touring anyway.

I already have a tow bar fitted with a standard 7 pin trailer socket and I have no wish to have further modifications to the motorhome (Burstner Solano t750) so this effectively rules out A-frames requiring additional motorhome wiring as required by some A-frames with electronic braking systems apart from Smart-tow (as far as I’m aware). Also, my personal view is that if I went down the A-frame route an inertial braking system may not be entirely within current legislative guidance so I would likely go for an electronically braked system.

The gross train mass of my motorhome is 5400kg and so I am OK with either a Smart Fortwo on an A-frame or the car on small 2-wheel trailer.

So, my quandary is, do I go down the A-frame or the trailer route?

I have done a lot of research and certainly in the UK the A-frame route seems to be the most logical and convenient way to transport a small car?

What causes me concern is future legislative changes in the UK which may effectively ban A-frames for transporting a vehicle that has not “broken down” which my local motorhome dealer hinted may be coming next year?

I would be grateful for thoughts, experience and practical advice.
 
Feb 22, 2008
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I use an unbraked AFrame with an American RVi Brake2 inertia system which sits in the car footwell and operates the pedal.
The only link to the car is a breakaway switch fitted central under the front bumper, with all other info via a wireless unit in the mohome cab.
I ordered direct from the US and received it in 48hrs.
www.rvibrake.com

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zac

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I use an unbraked AFrame with an American RVi Brake2 inertia system which sits in the car footwell and operates the pedal.
The only link to the car is a breakaway switch fitted central under the front bumper, with all other info via a wireless unit in the mohome cab.
I ordered direct from the US and received it in 48hrs.
www.rvibrake.com
that looks intresting, not seen this before. Might assist when swapping car's as then only need to get it modified to tow only.

How good are they and have there been any problems, what car's have you used this on just out of interest ?

Thanks
 
Feb 22, 2008
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that looks intresting, not seen this before. Might assist when swapping car's as then only need to get it modified to tow only.

How good are they and have there been any problems, what car's have you used this on just out of interest ?

Thanks

Am using it on Kia Rio 3 , works well especially with ability to adjust sensitivity and effort, no problems so far.
 

mjltigger

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Also beware unexpected wear and tear on the toad. My opinion is trailer all day.. Why risk an A frame if you are in any doubt at all

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zac

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Am using it on Kia Rio 3 , works well especially with ability to adjust sensitivity and effort, no problems so far.
Very interesting, thanks, i will look into this a bit more as we are thining of changing our towcar and this i am sure will save a lot of money in the long run if it works as well as it says :)
 
Jul 29, 2013
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We went down the trailer route as was concerned about the wear and tear on the car with an a frame also travel to Spain for winter and a frames a no no

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Jul 29, 2013
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I dont understand the wear n tear problems folks think they have.

The cars structure, steering and suspension is capable of withstanding the forces involved.....you drive it and just the same forces apply.
But are they designed to be towed for long distances or long periods of time?

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pappajohn

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But being towed is a different kettle of fish eg. Extra strain on front end chassis
If the chassis cant take the strain it cant take the strain of normal driving.
Only difference is the forces are reversed.....the car steers the wheels

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sdc77

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If the chassis cant take the strain it cant take the strain of normal driving.
Only difference is the forces are reversed.....the car steers the wheels
No.. that's not the case is it. The A frames connect to either the original or adapted front cross member that was never designed for that purpose at all.
That's no me knocking A frames as they are obviously still OK in the UK but there have been instances of issues ... wasn't it a ford KA.
 
Feb 22, 2008
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No.. that's not the case is it. The A frames connect to either the original or adapted front cross member that was never designed for that purpose at all.
That's no me knocking A frames as they are obviously still OK in the UK but there have been instances of issues ... wasn't it a ford KA.

Yes , one, but the reasons why we dont really know.

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Charlie

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For use in the UK and/France go A frame. There is a company that gives a written guarantee that they conform to legislation. Why on earth would we lumber ourselves with a blooming trailer and all the disadvantages that go with it ?

Wear on the toad ? What you mean wheel bearings ? Do trailers not have wheel bearings ? What else is going to wear that will present a problem ?

When in France a fella had a Smart on an A frame from Towbars to Towcars. The A frame itself was extremely light and easy to use. It went in the boot with consummate ease . I cannot think of an easier thing to set up and use. It comes as above with FULL written certification that it conforms to ALL requirements for use on the roads in the UK and in Europe. That said certain countries will spit the dummy but in this case for use in the UK get one and forget what the sooth sayers say.

Dont forget with a trailer you have to have somewhere to store it not only on site but at home when not in use. Strapping a car to a trailer is not that easy. It absolutely must be done well cos if ever a car came off a trailer and it wasn't strapped on properly all hell would ensue.
 

zac

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I brought a normal A-Frame at the start of the year to assist whilst touring in the UK. I did consider the tralier option but for the reasons above it is just to much hassle trying to find somewhere to put it when onsite. The A-Frames are not without issues, the main one for me not being able to reverse without it being unhitched. That said it is the lesser of two evils and i prefer this to a trailer. I have a HydraTrail for use in Europe which is a lot easier once connected up but i do prefer the car/A-Frame

Each to their own though.
 
Feb 22, 2008
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I brought a normal A-Frame at the start of the year to assist whilst touring in the UK. I did consider the tralier option but for the reasons above it is just to much hassle trying to find somewhere to put it when onsite. The A-Frames are not without issues, the main one for me not being able to reverse without it being unhitched. That said it is the lesser of two evils and i prefer this to a trailer. I have a HydraTrail for use in Europe which is a lot easier once connected up but i do prefer the car/A-Frame

Each to their own though.

With the inertia brake unit it is possible to reverse a bit to get out of trouble as the brakes dont operate but it doesnt take long for the car to do its own thing with steering.

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zac

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With the inertia brake unit it is possible to reverse a bit to get out of trouble as the brakes dont operate but it doesnt take long for the car to do its own thing with steering.

Yes its the steering that causes the issues, now if they can make something where you can reverse just like a trailer now that would be worth buying. I have seen some sites claim to allow reversing but not seen anything to back this claim up from the people that actually use it.
 

mjltigger

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Yes its the steering that causes the issues, now if they can make something where you can reverse just like a trailer now that would be worth buying. I have seen some sites claim to allow reversing but not seen anything to back this claim up from the people that actually use it.
Take the handbrake off the MH and reverse the car??
 

ianandkath

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ha ha , mine rv weighs 10 tons, dont think a smart will move it

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Feb 22, 2008
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Yes its the steering that causes the issues, now if they can make something where you can reverse just like a trailer now that would be worth buying. I have seen some sites claim to allow reversing but not seen anything to back this claim up from the people that actually use it.

I often wondered if a soft bungy from the bottom of the wheel to the bottom of the drivers seat would prevent steering allowing straight line reversing but still allow the wheel to move when moving forwards.
 
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One point that does not get a mention is a lot of modern vehicles have a pumped oil system for the gearbox which only works when the gearbox is turning not when the diff is the driving force. Some have this system some don't you take your chance.
 

zac

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Take the handbrake off the MH and reverse the car??
I am afraid you have lost me, no idea what the hand brake on the motorhome has to do with reversing with the smartcar attached.!

As with all A-Frame setups when you attempt to reverse even very slowly so the brake does not apply on the car the steering wheel of the car turns all the way round regardless. This of course prevents you from reversing it, you can force it but not something i am willing to risk as forcing the car to go back in reverse against the will of wheels is only going to end badly.

Now to assist with my setup i usually ask my wife just to sit in the smartcar and hold the sterring wheel stright, this of course works to a certain point. Not ideal but better than unhitching.

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zac

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I often wondered if a soft bungy from the bottom of the wheel to the bottom of the drivers seat would prevent steering allowing straight line reversing but still allow the wheel to move when moving forwards.

That may work but i would of thought it would have to be pretty strong to stop the wheel from turning, worth trying out though when we next take ours on the road.
 

sdc77

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Maybe the engineers on here can answer these questions.
If the front cross member isn't designed to be a constant towing anchor how can a A frame company issue a warranty/guarantee for it (after all its not even their product) .. or .. as in the case of at least one company they supply an altered cross member. . How can that possibly be warranted by them or the car manufacturer
It also appears that A frames don't comply with trailer regs and will not be type approve so how will that figure in the long run?
I'm not anti A Frame at all and I know many people have had many a happy mile but these are questions that prevented me getting one and having tried a trailer now hire a car if we're going to need one.
 

GWAYGWAY

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The KA has a weak front mounting attachment that was only meant to have a towing eye for recovery. The constant forces on that point were enough to fatigue the whole sub chassis and resulted in a cracking of the body in front of the bulkhead which then cracked on the other side as well tearing at the box section which was wobbly but all that was holding it apart from the wings. Some car are better designed for the loads but some are not the bits involved are really only for holding the front bumper on with an emergency tow eye for a short tow off the road, then ambulanced from there using the front wheels.

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