Gross vehicle weight / payload (1 Viewer)

Nov 9, 2015
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Hi All

I have looked around the forum but haven't been able to find an answer. I have been looking at Fiat Ducato van conversions and I notice that a lot of them are built on the 3300Kg chassis rather than the 3500Kg chassis. What is not clear to me is why the 3500 is not used, as it gives another 200Kg loading, especially as payload is a key factor. I have been advised that the 3300 should be sufficient, but if not, the upgrade to 3500 is only a paper exercise (at a cost I expect).

My question is why is the 3500 not used more? Am I missing something, or is there a reason, if so what is it/are they? Is there some implication to Road Fund Licence, speed limits, insurance, or something else, or is it purely down to the initial cost of the base van?

Cheers

Trevor
 

tonka

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May used be based on the year of production you are looking at..
Example my apache 700 has been based on 3850kg because that was the chassis at the time, then some came out at 4005kg and now latest is 4250...
If the van is compliant at 3500 then yes you can upgrade it, few topics on here about that..
 

johnp10

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Many are built on an ALKO chassis, not Fiat, Peugot or Citroen's own. (Basically the same vehicle)

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Judge Mental

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Chaps Trevor has asked about panel vans. Why complicate it by bringing in alko chassis!lol. Yet to see aa panel van on one:)

3500's normally on longer 636 chassis. So you get more room and easy upgrade to 4250 as most on Maxi chassis.

Have had 3300 as well on a 6 metre van. And that was fine as well. Depends what your looking at? We only buy European vans

Its over 3500 that restrictions begin
 
Last edited:
Jul 12, 2013
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I believe that many motorhomes are built DOWN to a weight, so that the eventual 3.500kg can be achieved, as there are several factors that come into play over that weight.
My van is usually marketed in Germany at 3.5 but on request the same van was plated by the manufacturers at 3.8.
Alan
 

Badknee

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Be very carefully as some vans weigh 3300kg and max out @ 3500kg as did ours but the previous owner had it re-rated @ 3750kg.

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OP
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Treeeev
Nov 9, 2015
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Chaps Trevor has asked about panel vans. Why complicate it by bringing in alko chassis!lol. Yet to see aa panel van on one:)

3500's normally on longer 636 chassis. So you get more room and easy upgrade to 4250 as most on Maxi chassis.

Have had 3300 as well on a 6 metre van. And that was fine as well. Depends what your looking at? We only buy European vans

Its over 3500 that restrictions begin

Thanks all, but as Judgemental noticed, definitely a panel van, so no alko chassis ;)

Why I am querying is that I have a deposit on a new van conversion which is rated at 3300Kg, but there is an optional upgrade to 3500Kg. What isn't clear to me is if the van can be had with the 3500Kg (ie extra 200Kg payload) why isn't it used? What are the reasons for not using this rather than the 3300Kg?

I am aware of the over 3500Kg restrictions and want to stay away from them :)

Cheers

Trevor
 

Judge Mental

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what van..tell us and may be able to help re practicability.

payload is not the end of the story. as axle capacity can be reached long before max payload..so 3500 may be illusory in some cases...

If its a UK van make sure you weigh it before buying..

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Jan 28, 2008
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you need to look at the in running order weight and subtract it from the gross weight to see how much payload you have
there are two chassis on the fiats the normal one and the maxi the maxi can go up to over 4 tonnes the smaller i think is limited to 3.5 tonnes and is obviously cheaper to buy as a base
as a guide my conversion weighed in at 2.8 tonnes without the gas tank and the awning and with no fluids on board so at a guess im normally running around 3.1 with us both in it
 

Judge Mental

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there is a "Light" as well, can run at 3300 or 3500. but rear axle only 2000 whereas Maxi 2400 - this impossible to overload in a PVC. but as I said earlier this don't mean you cant reach the max payload!
 
OP
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Treeeev
Nov 9, 2015
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what van..tell us and may be able to help re practicability.

payload is not the end of the story. as axle capacity can be reached long before max payload..so 3500 may be illusory in some cases...

If its a UK van make sure you weigh it before buying..

you need to look at the in running order weight and subtract it from the gross weight to see how much payload you have
there are two chassis on the fiats the normal one and the maxi the maxi can go up to over 4 tonnes the smaller i think is limited to 3.5 tonnes and is obviously cheaper to buy as a base
as a guide my conversion weighed in at 2.8 tonnes without the gas tank and the awning and with no fluids on board so at a guess im normally running around 3.1 with us both in it

there is a "Light" as well, can run at 3300 or 3500. but rear axle only 2000 whereas Maxi 2400 - this impossible to overload in a PVC. but as I said earlier this don't mean you cant reach the max payload!

Thanks Judgemental & Mitzimad

The van is a Carthago Malibu 600 DB2 built on the light chassis. The quoted weight is 2824Kg, which with the 3300Kg chassis would leave a payload of 476Kg. One of the options is an upgrade to 3500Kg, which would then give a payload of 676Kg. Most of the time, the van would only have two of us in it, therefore the 3300Kg should be fine. I can see that there would be some occasions where there would be four in the van when the extra payload would help.

What I am trying to clarify is why this uprated chassis option is not used more often as I hear a lot of people having insufficient payload and need to uprate the chassis (something I would rather address in the beginning if I can). I would also like to clarify what downsides there are of having the uprated chassis (apart from the initial cost). I haven't seen any as yet, hence my questioning the knowledgeable collective

Cheers

Trevor

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dave newell

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There is no advantage to using a 3300KG chassis as a base other than initial cost, yes it can be upgraded but that's at your cost not the converter's. 3300KG base vehicle is a joke for a modern camper conversion and unless many corners are cut regarding insulation and equipment levels it will be difficult to achieve a realistically useable payload.

D.
 
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Jan 28, 2008
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i dont think they should be using the light chassis at all even when uprated to 3.5 it will not have the extra heavyweight axles and brakes of the maxi chassis i had to search for a long time to find a maxi with low milage when i decided to build
 

Minxy

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Out of interst, have you any idea what it would cost to get the higher rated 3500kg chassis? Assuming it is a different chassis from the 3300kg one it would be interesting to know how much they're trying to 'sting' you for when most PVCs are built on the 3500kg chassis.

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Many are built on an ALKO chassis, not Fiat, Peugot or Citroen's own. (Basically the same vehicle)
I think we are talking proper heavy duty chassis here not ones meant for caravans :D:):giggler::party3::roflmto::boxing::rofl::party::reel::wine:
 
Jan 28, 2008
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chassis is not realy the right term as were talking about pvc's its more the spec of tyres brakes suspension which are heavier on the maxi not sure if theres any extra metal in the floorpans as ive never seen two close enough together to compare maybe dave newell can enlighten me on this
 

Minxy

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I don't think the 3500kg is necessarily a maxi chassis as our previous Autocruise Accent PVC was rated at 3500kg but wasn't a maxi.

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GWAYGWAY

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You do not have to worry about the PVC being overloaded as there is not enough room to put any heavy bits in there anyway, apart from some owners and there partners that is.
 
Jul 12, 2013
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There are so many issues here to consider regarding the most suitable chassis, tyres, axle and ultimate payload. I understand the with only two of you, you are inclined to opt for the lighter chassis. Personally I would go for the heavier unit, for you would be surprised how quickly your payload is eaten up. One consideration for example is the weight of a full fuel tank and full water tank, plus of course two people and the weight of food, drink and camping equipment. Another weight could include bikes which can double their weight if fitted on the back on a cycle rack. Many vans do not come with a spare wheel nowadays (worth checking) and these are not light. The advice to contact SVtec is good, for they are the people who specialise (amongst other things) on vehicle weights, suspensions and tyres which can also determine your payload.
Alan

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DBK

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This isn't much of an answer but might give a bit of background. As a generalisation I would suggest if you can afford the slightly extra price of the Maxi chassis and of course you can get it for the vehicle you want then choose this version. Ours is plated at 3500 kg but a paper exercise would increase this to 4250 kg. As already suggested a 3200 kg PVC is a joke I think. Your payload would be about a small teddy bear. :)
 

Derbyshire wanderer

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The different weights are sold as there are cost implications involved with the 3500kg chassis. Not specifically on Fiat but wheel and tyre sizes, tyre ratings, brake sizes, engine tuning etc all have a bearing on the weight capacity or performance for a given load weight.
Not a lot of point buying the 3500kg chassis if you want a van to deliver polystyrene sheets but a mh may well use all of the payload available.
I would definitely spec the higher weight chassis as the licence implications are the same but 200kg may be really useful extra payload.

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DP+JAY

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Judge Mental

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Thanks Judgemental & Mitzimad

The van is a Carthago Malibu 600 DB2 built on the light chassis. The quoted weight is 2824Kg, which with the 3300Kg chassis would leave a payload of 476Kg. One of the options is an upgrade to 3500Kg, which would then give a payload of 676Kg. Most of the time, the van would only have two of us in it, therefore the 3300Kg should be fine. I can see that there would be some occasions where there would be four in the van when the extra payload would help.

What I am trying to clarify is why this uprated chassis option is not used more often as I hear a lot of people having insufficient payload and need to uprate the chassis (something I would rather address in the beginning if I can). I would also like to clarify what downsides there are of having the uprated chassis (apart from the initial cost). I haven't seen any as yet, hence my questioning the knowledgeable collective

Cheers

Trevor

I answered this already? The reason why not all sold at 3500. Is because the axle capacity can be reached before payload maxed out.. So it can be pointless. I would choose the 3500 option though as it gives flexibility...

The 2824 kg which I presume is the MIRO? To that you need to add extras. Second battery? Awning? Etc....then you arrive at what payload you have left to play with...

Very nice van! Good choice:)

Edit: just looked on mobile.de and first five I looked at all 3500 so wonder what your dealer playing at...they also have chassis package and 16 inch wheels. Hope you have not paid to much either, with pound so strong and so many available bargains to be had if imported...
 
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johnp10

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I think we are talking proper heavy duty chassis here not ones meant for caravans :D:):giggler::party3::roflmto::boxing::rofl::party::reel::wine:


I know.
Didn't read the OP properly.
Not just caravans, but many MH conversion are done on All I chassis, as is mine.

What's all the nonsense smileys about?

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Ray's Scout

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May used be based on the year of production you are looking at..
Example my apache 700 has been based on 3850kg because that was the chassis at the time, then some came out at 4005kg and now latest is 4250...
If the van is compliant at 3500 then yes you can upgrade it, few topics on here about that..
How do you up grade your payload ?
 

tonka

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How do you up grade your payload ?

You need to contact one of these companies
They can tell you what can be done with and without modifications.



 
Aug 18, 2011
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Hi All

I have looked around the forum but haven't been able to find an answer. I have been looking at Fiat Ducato van conversions and I notice that a lot of them are built on the 3300Kg chassis rather than the 3500Kg chassis. What is not clear to me is why the 3500 is not used, as it gives another 200Kg loading, especially as payload is a key factor. I have been advised that the 3300 should be sufficient, but if not, the upgrade to 3500 is only a paper exercise (at a cost I expect).

My question is why is the 3500 not used more? Am I missing something, or is there a reason, if so what is it/are they? Is there some implication to Road Fund Licence, speed limits, insurance, or something else, or is it purely down to the initial cost of the base van?

Cheers

Trevor
Cost at a guess,,BUSBY.

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