NEW COOKER CAUGHT 0N FIRE - WHERE DO WE STAND? (1 Viewer)

[Sundowners]

Having purchased and installed a new cooker for our motorhome - we went away for a few days with the grandchildren and had cause to use it. At first we thought we could smell gas, but put the smell down to the newness burning off, using oven and two left burners, whilst having the door and skylight open while in use. Next day used oven and right hand burner, could smell a burning smell and found flames coming out from under the hob. Immediately turned off gas at source. We believe that the leak is behind the front panel at the oven control. This can only be accessed by removing the side panel which is pop-riveted on. It could not have been caused by any installation we or a qualified gas engineer would have done.

We have been in touch with the supplier and they have passed us onto Dometic to arrange for an engineer to come and have a look.

Our question is, do we have the right to request the cooker be taken back. We don't want a repaired one and we now have total lack of confidence in this cooker. Also the thought of what could have happened to any one of us, like if we had been outside whilst kids inside, it doesn't bear thinking about.
Also is our contract with the supplier and not Dometic. Should they be arranging a visit from the engineer.

What do you legal eagles say? Your advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Techno]

Should they be arranging a visit from the engineer.

Yes IMHO
It's under warranty it won't cost you anything and if a genuine fault he will find it and report. I would imagine that if fire damaged it won't be cost effective to make good and should be replaced.

 

[DBK]

Who installed it and who supplied it? Your redress is with one of them depending on circumstances.

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[tofo]

I'm thinking they may ask who fitted it
And we're they registered to work or install it
(Yes I know it's a minefield gas safe and mobile vehicles wise)

But few makers will not shoulder the blame
if they can make it your fault
Re how was it tested and installed and commissioned

So be on your guard

 

[Lenny HB]

If you fitted it yourself I would have thought the best course of action would be to take it out and return it to the retailer.

 

[Steve and Denise]

Only a approved fitter should fit a gas appliance then test the operation of it, from what you say the fault appeared after the initial fitting and testing of the cooker.?

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[scotjimland]

If you fitted it yourself I would have thought the best course of action would be to take it out and return it to the retailer.

that would also be my course of action..

Domestic gas installs must be checked by a Gas Safe registered installer (formerly CORGI)
but as afar as I am aware, and strange as it may seem, there are no similar regulations for motorhome and caravan gas installations.

however, anyone who does gas work should be properly trained..

 

[Landy lover]

Interesting - I thought there was legislation in place regarding fitting of gas appliances - I can find all sorts of indications that there is but it does seem to me that they actually all end up as recommendations, I would guess that the main issue would be if there were fire or explosion the query would be from the insurance as to who fitted the unit and failure to comply with the manufacturers fitting recommendations ( use a qualified fitter ) could lead to non payment of a claim. I would hope that the guy from Dometic is sensible and either sorts or replaces it. Think you will have to allow them to repair or replace at their option unless it is less than I think 30 days since purchase in which case they should replace.

 

[Techno]

Dometic were well aware that I fitted my fridge and never caused a problem with all the faults it had in 2 yrs but I did test for leaks

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[dryad]

what a frightening experience and thank goodness it wasn't a 'worse case' scenario and everyone is safe..
the converters installed all my bits and pieces, but had a qualified gas safe engineer do all the gas bits and pieces and i was given a gas safe certificate, without that, i wouldn't be using it..
have seen how quickly a fire can take hold..

 

[buttons]

What do you legal eagles say? Your advice would be much appreciated.

I dont see any problem with getting a replacement from the seller if the goods were faulty when purchased. I am sure my version is totally incorrect but this is how I am reading it. You purchased a cooker, fitted it yourself without proof of a pressure test. Now wanting legal advice for potential claim for your distress. Perhaps I need to read it again.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

My understanding is that you have purchased faulty goods and therefore should be entitled to an exchange or refund.
Regarding the fire, I will be amazed if the fitting instructions do not mention the need for competent fitting. Any competent fitter whether gas safe register or not would imho be expected to test it before declaring it safe to use.
It's good that no one was hurt but as there appears to be no proof of testing, a gas leak possibility in the eyes of the law was not checked and therefore the manufacturer imho would not be liable.

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[Robert Clark]

We used to sell gas appliances as part of our kitchen fitting business. One thing our suppliers were adamant about was not taking the back off any appliance, other than to connect. Therefore you would not be expected as an installer to attempt a repair or remove any panels.
I think Donetic will offer you a straight replacement - though I would not make too much of a fuss and simply accept a replacement with good grace, as they might say that you should have done a pressure test, which would have shown that the appliance was faulty.

 

[mike mcglynn]

Hi, folks engineers report is key to everything if not satisfied with outcome I would pay for an independent survey as that cooker should have been tested and certified in situ, by a competent person .

 

[buttons]

Hi, folks engineers report is key to everything if not satisfied with outcome I would pay for an independent survey as that cooker should have been tested and certified in situ, by a competent person .

I would say only if you have problems getting a refund from the supplier. Otherwise not worth the bother.

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[eddie]

Simplist way for all concerned would be to cancel the engineer, send it back to the supplier for a replacement.

But, if Dometic send an engineer and rectify the fault, he or she will fully test the oven to ensure there are no other issues.

If you order another, who is to say that there isn't a batch fault and that you could have the same problem after fitting a new one?

I'd get it inspecte, fixed and be happy that it all works and has been tested

 

[Landy lover]

I would be interested to know at what point in the cooker the leak occurred - surely a gas engineer would use a manometer to check for leaks i.e with the taps shut. He may also use a gas 'sniffer' to go around all points to check for a leak. How he would check for a leak between the taps and the burner I have not a clue - surely that would be visual only ?? any one any thoughts ? I guess from Nigel's post that the leak occurred between taps and burners otherwise there would have been a gas smell ??

 

[Sundowners]

Hi
The leak did not show up on testing as it only leaked when the oven was on--------the leak is hidden behind pop-riveted panels-------surely this would have been picked up when manufacturer tested it after assembly if it was so easy to detect??-------we are NOT looking for anything other than a safe working cooker-----but we do need to use the van
It was quite an expensive one from a reputable manufacturer----surely it is not expecting too much to have it work correctly ???

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[Robert Clark]

Hi
The leak did not show up on testing as it only leaked when the oven was on--------the leak is hidden behind pop-riveted panels-------surely this would have been picked up when manufacturer tested it after assembly if it was so easy to detect??-------we are NOT looking for anything other than a safe working cooker-----but we do need to use the van
It was quite an expensive one from a reputable manufacturer----surely it is not expecting too much to have it work correctly ???

It's a reasonable assumption to make, but a day rarely goes by when somebody is forced to complain about their faulty Dometic appliance on this forum, be it an oven, fridge or any other if the many products they make
Just because they're a large manufacturer does not necessarily mean that their kit is well designed it well made.
I think if Dometic were making home appliances, they would have gone out of business years ago

 

[Zigisla]

I don’t know whether this makes any difference, but when assembling a folding camper, the owner will fit the cooker to the van via a quick release coupling. If gas fitting must be completed by a certified engineer, how do folding campers get away with it?
By the sounds of the thread, it was a faulty appliance and not a faulty connection the owners made and therefore the appliance should be returned to supplier as faulty. An engineer may not have "Sniffed" out the leak if the oven has softened a soldered joint when it got hot. Remove and get a new one.
Is the ruling of not requiring a gas fitter to install a domestic gas system to a motorhome still in place in this instance? How did all the “I fitted my gasflo system myself” brigade get away with it?

 

[Lenny HB]

I think under the sale of goods act if you accept a repair the supplier is no longer obligate to exchange or refund, if that is the case if would be best to refuse a repair and insist on a replacement or refund.

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[Landy lover]

Hi
The leak did not show up on testing as it only leaked when the oven was on--------the leak is hidden behind pop-riveted panels-------surely this would have been picked up when manufacturer tested it after assembly if it was so easy to detect??-------we are NOT looking for anything other than a safe working cooker-----but we do need to use the van
It was quite an expensive one from a reputable manufacturer----surely it is not expecting too much to have it work correctly ???

So the answer is it was tested on fitting and the fault would not be picked by the most competent gas fitter and it is a manufacturing fault. No gas fitter would expect to disassemble a new appliance to check for leaks or faults. The fault Nigel describes would be in the manufacturers testing and be signed off and testers individual label attached to confirm that. Back to the engineer and will he be prepared to disassemble ??? If its a factory testing fault they may want it disappeared very quickly especially when they find out it is a point of discussion on the biggest Motorhome forum in the UK /Europe ?

 

[Landy lover]

I don’t know whether this makes any difference, but when assembling a folding camper, the owner will fit the cooker to the van via a quick release coupling. If gas fitting must be completed by a certified engineer, how do folding campers get away with it?

Under the gas safe regulations a quick release coupling is exempt from as it is designed for user to move the appliance.

 

[Zigisla]

Under the gas safe regulations a quick release coupling is exempt from as it is designed for user to move the appliance.

Thanks. To use a many used quote from this site. "Every day is a school day"

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[scotjimland]

How did all the “I fitted my gasflo system myself” brigade get away with it?

there are no regulations about who must, or must not, fit gas appliances or bottles in a motorhome.. there is only H&S advice which says that they should be trained and competent.. that is open to interpretation..

for example.. I trained to work with 3,000 psi gas lines on offshore oil platforms.. .. someone else may be a Gas Safe fitter.. or an ex Army bod with tons of experience .. or just a very competent DIYer .. are we competent ?

besides.. fitting a refillable Gaslow bottle is no different from changing a Calor exchange bottle..
No idea how we survived all these decades changing our own gas bottles

 

[Zigisla]

So we have established that there is no legality issues to fitting your own gas appliance, gasflo system, gasflo or calor bottles, bbq or other quick fit appliances. So the only issue to the OP’s post is that the kit supplied was faulty and irrespective of who fitted it, it should be replaced or refunded.

 

[StefAndDi]

rarely goes by when somebody is forced to complain about their faulty Dometic appliance on this forum

I think if Dometic were making home appliances, they would have gone out of business years ago

Too true @Robert Clark.
My 8-month-old Hymer is going back to the dealer next month for a faulty Dometic cooker to be replaced under warranty.
Stef.

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[TheTwoOfUs]

Now that you've had all the sensible answers ,can I reply to your original question
"New cooker caught on fire - where do we stand?"
As far away as possible.

 

[Odd job]

Any gas appliance must be installed and commissioned by a competent person. The best way to prove competence is to hold a current certificate of competence. In this case a cert. for LPG or crossover from NG. as well as one for leisure accommodation vehicles and another for cookers. If the installation is done professionally the engineer must be registered with Gas Safe for the work being done. When installing a cooker (or any other gas appliance) the gas supply should be tested for leaks before and after the installation. The commissioning and testing would (should) find any defects with the appliance before it is put into service. Any DIY installation may invalidate the insurance.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Landy lover]

Any gas appliance must be installed and commissioned by a competent person. The best way to prove competence is to hold a current certificate of competence. In this case a cert. for LPG or crossover from NG. as well as one for leisure accommodation vehicles and another for cookers. If the installation is done professionally the engineer must be registered with Gas Safe for the work being done. When installing a cooker (or any other gas appliance) the gas supply should be tested for leaks before and after the installation. The commissioning and testing would (should) find any defects with the appliance before it is put into service. Any DIY installation may invalidate the insurance.

Hope this helps a bit.

Agree with all you say but how as a professional fitter would you tell if there was a gas leak between the cooker taps and the burner which appears to be the problem here. Surely when you fit a new appliance you would not deconstruct the cooker to check internal pipework and none of the normal checks you would make before commissioning and after commissioning would show up such a leak .?

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