RE-FILLABLE GAS BOTTLE "UPDATE". (2 Viewers)

[MitchandJenny]

As promised, I have spoken to Nick, the boss of Gas-It re-fillable gas cylinders, reference the refusal of some companies to allow the use of their premises for re-filling of this type of system.
The problem seems to arise from the misunderstanding of the different "Type approval "
applied for by the manufacturers of these systems.
Gaslow use type 67 cylinders, which are required to be mounted with steel bands fastened to a cage type gas locker capable of withstanding a crash generating a G force of 20G forwards(or backward), and a G force of 8G from either side.
Autocruise is one manufacturer who fits such a steel cage fastened to the vehicle chassis to carry the gas-it bottles.
Gas-it get their bottles made in Portugal by the same company who manufacture bottles for Calor. And Nick writes the training manuals FOR Calor so that they can train their personnel . The difference between Calor bottles and Gas-it bottles, is the 80% cut off fitted to the Gas-it ones.
The explosion at the Morrisons garage was apparently caused because a STEEL flexihose had been used as the external re-fill hose !! These hoses are NOT (BY EU law) to be used as re-fill for LIQUID gas re-filling..
I was surprised to hear that Gas-it only supply 3% of their output to individual van owners and the rest goes to Motorhome manufacturers. And he says he has had NO feedback from ANY the manufacturers about any problems regarding re-filling refusal problems.. SO maybe THAT is where we should lodge our complaints FIRST...
I realise that this quite a "messy" description of the situation and I apologise if it appears incoherent and that it draws no conclusion and I WILL have further conversations with Gas-it to seek more clarity. But that is all I know at present.
If anyone has any more input or information then it can only help.
Meanwhile, there are loads of places more than happy to allow refilling at their pumps and I have NO regrets about fitting mine.. It has saved me enough to pay for itself..
SOooooo. Please don't shoot the messenger. I am doing my best to get some clarity on this topic..
Mitch..

 

[reader]

Thank you for your research and shareing your findings

 

[Speve]

Thank you for your research and shareing your findings

I second that it's a really useful piece of work you are doing I recently fitted a twin 11kg system with external fill to my Hymer Exsis works well and no problem filling so far but will let you know if I do come across refusals to fill.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

Thanks from me as well.

 

[Badknee]

Thanks for the info on this. I must admit when ordering my Gasit system I decided to fit the fill point externally and on the same side as the fuel filler. Two reasons for this 1) it is easier to fuel up and gas up at the same time. 2) it is just a fill point that anyone can see and not the two bottle set up I have just so nobody gets rattled.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

If STEEL hoses are not allowed then is it only rubber ones with the steel reinforcing around them or just Rubber?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[dave newell]

Whilst it is good that you have done some research on this I do have some doubts as to the accuracy of what you have been told:
"Gaslow use type 67 cylinders, which are required to be mounted with steel bands fastened to a cage type gas locker capable of withstanding a crash generating a G force of 20G forwards(or backward), and a G force of 8G from either side."

I have fitted refillable cylinders in literally hundreds of motorhomes, including Autocruise ans I have yet to see such a physical restraint cage. The gas locker itself on the majority of motorhomes wouldn't survive a 20G acceleration, probably not even an 8G acceleration. I also remain to be convinced that Nick of Gasit fame writes the training manuals for Calor. Lets face it Calor is a major company that has been around for decades, would they really sub out their training manual writing to a small company that's been around for less than a decade and whose main business is selling equipment which rivals a large part of their market? Really???

D.

 

[Techno]

How many training manuals do Calor have? surely it is just one

 

[DuxDeluxe]

If STEEL hoses are not allowed then is it only rubber ones with the steel reinforcing around them or just Rubber?

If steel hoses are not allowed, then why do GASLOW sell so many braided steel hoses?? They are very similar in design to the anaconda 6" and 8" hoses we used for ship to ship LPG transfers - very robust indeed and stood up to some very rough treatment during STS operations

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Munchie]

My gaslow has a steel refill hose and has for the last 8 years!

 

[Techno]

A refill hose has different connection to a pigtail so they cannot be confused. Gasit's tail doesn't ring true

 

[DuxDeluxe]

A refill hose has different connection to a pigtail so they cannot be confused. Gasit's tail doesn't ring true

Bad pun alert........

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Techno]

No pun intended David
Fill hose and fitting each end are JIC and nothing like the tank/bottle outlet connections

 

[DuxDeluxe]

No pun intended David
Fill hose and fitting each end are JIC and nothing like the tank/bottle outlet connections

Still a bad pun, though.......

 

[Minxy]

I'm a bit confused ... as Dave has mentioned some of what has been said by Nick just doesn't seem right. What exactly is meant by a steel hose? I've got braided s/s hoses from Gaslow which have a 20 year life!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I'm a bit confused ... as Dave has mentioned some of what has been said by Nick just doesn't seem right. What exactly is meant by a steel hose? I've got braided s/s hoses from Gaslow which have a 20 year life!

Precisely. These are corrugated stainless hoses with a braided stainless protective covering. About as good as you can get - as per my previous post about the large bore LPG hoses for ships......

 

[Minxy]

The only 'steel' hose I can think of is a shower hose!

 

[DuxDeluxe]

The only 'steel' hose I can think of is a shower hose!

......and they are probably plastic!

Mind you, someone will be selling them on eBay as adaptors to refill Calor bottles........

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

......and they are probably plastic!

Mind you, someone will be selling them on eBay as adaptors to refill Calor bottles........

I've certainly had steel ones ... I'd love to know what the Morrisons bloke used.

 

[iandsm]

Although I appreciate the OP doing some research into the problem, I didn't realise there was a "problem" I when never been refused a refil for my Gaslow bottles ( filler inside locker) either in the UK or in France, Germany or Italy as well as the Netherlands. Perhaps I have just been fortunate.

I certainly don't understand why a steel hose cannot be used as a filler hose provided it has the correct fitting and is made for the job as the Gaslow one is.

 

[Judge Mental]

If STEEL hoses are not allowed then is it only rubber ones with the steel reinforcing around them or just Rubber?

The stainless steel or rubber are low pressure! Only to be used between the regulator and bottle.

The exterior feed is a high pressure rubber pipe (or should be) similar to those used in hydrolic oil filled systems on heavy machinery and the like.....


The only hose approved for in motion gas use are particular rubber ones with the right valve... Think about it.

Have never seen a stainless steel high pressure hose...maybe there are..

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[iandsm]

The stainless steel or rubber are low pressure! Only to be used between the regulator and bottle.

The exterior feed is a high pressure rubber pipe (or should be) similar to those used in hydrolic oil filled systems on heavy machinery and the like.....

So are you saying the Gaslow steel filler hose between the filler point and bottle are not fit for the purpose?

 

[Judge Mental]

So are you saying the Gaslow steel filler hose between the filler point and bottle are not fit for the purpose?

Not a clue what it is.....ask gaslow

If its a high pressure one no problem. Though this about using the right hose for right application?

 

[barsteward]

Getting worried then for a minute. I bought everything from Gasit last year and haven't a steel hose in the van. I also have the filler inside the locker and as yet have never been refused including 5 months in Europe last winter. Will keep an eye on this and may re-site the filler to the outside of the van.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[bigtree]

Getting worried then for a minute. I bought everything from Gasit last year and haven't a steel hose in the van. I also have the filler inside the locker and as yet have never been refused including 5 months in Europe last winter. Will keep an eye on this and may re-site the filler to the outside of the van.

That's because Gasit don't sell/use steel hoses,this is a gimmick by gaslow claiming this will stop the oil residue from gumming up your regulator.

 

[Judge Mental]

If HP rubber good enough for JCB good enough for me

 

[barsteward]

The first time I filled the bottles in Spain I actually worked myself up to the point where I was shaking. Why...because I'd read so many stories. I think sometimes were are own worst enemies.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[John & Joan]

I think a lot of confusion arises from this

August 2011
Replaces UKLPG Information Sheet 24 - June 2007


FILLING OF USER OWNED, PORTABLE REFILLABLE LPG CYLINDERS AT AUTOGAS REFUELLING SITES


It is the advice from UKLPG that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be refilled at self service autogas refuelling sites.


Containers which are attached to a vehicle for heating or cooking (on camper vans or similar) present similar risks on filling to those for propulsion purposes and may be permitted to be re-filled at autogas refuelling sites provided they:
are not removed for refilling; and
are secured in a suitable enclosure; and
are fitted with an internal device to physically prevent filling beyond 80%; and
are connected to a fixed filling connector which is not part of the container.

Some garage owners read only the first statement "It is the advice from UKLPG that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be refilled at self service autogas refuelling sites."

I have had this with one garage where the owner stated he could not guarantee that his staff could recognise the different types of portable cylinders, so he had issued instructions not to allow any campervans to fill any type of LPG container. I pointed out the second paragraph, but he was adamant and refused to fill my vehicle, although it is fitted with a under slung 85 litre gas tank with filler in the skirt, not bottles. He stated he had had a letter from Head Office stating that the supply was only to be into motor vehicles for propulsion purposes. His loss as I use more than the average user.

 

[iandsm]

Certainly some prefer Gasit and others Gaslow. I am satisfied that the Gaslow steel hoses meet the requirements for manufacture of flexible steel hoses as per EN 10380 now called ISO 10380-2012. They have a 15 year guarantee and thousands have been fitted and are in use so I will not loose any sleep over it.

 

[bartiny]

this is a gimmick by gaslow

Do you have evidence of this please.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}