Problem with leisure batteries (1 Viewer)

[Mags52]

We are in the South West of France with the van we've only had three months so still learning her foibles. We have two 85amp leisure batteries and a 120w panel. On Aires for the last four nights and the leisure batteries were fading fast. The engine battery was obviously charging but the leisure batteries went down very low, especially overnight to 8.5.
Had a look this morning and found that one of the fuses on the two cables coming down from the control panel had gone. It was a 2.5 fuse - the other one on the thicker cable is a 7 and it's fine. Replaced the fuse and the leisure batteries cheered up straight away.
We decided to go on site to get the benefit of electric hook up to charge them properly but I now see that the charge light is flickering. Don't know if this means it is fully charged of if it's registering a fault. Leisure batteries now read 13.5 but we are on hook up so this might not be an accurate measure.
Can anyone advise about the flickering charge light? the load light is solid green.
I can't see our model of controller on the net to get instructions.
Thanks folks
Mags

 

[pappajohn]

Sorry, cant help with the lights etc but if your batteries have been at 8.5v its time for new ones.

Anything below 10v indicates dead/worn out batteries.

 

[Gellyneck]

@Mags52 you might need to remind the gang what motorhome you've got?

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[Mags52]

@Mags52 you might need to remind the gang what motorhome you've got?

It's an Autotrail Miami 2007

 

[Mags52]

Sorry, cant help with the lights etc but if your batteries have been at 8.5v its time for new ones.

Anything below 10v indicates dead/worn out batteries.

Oh dear. The credit card is cowering in the corner.

 

[CandC]

The 13.5v you see when you're on hook-up is the voltage your charger is putting out, not the voltage of the battery. To get the battery voltage, you need to switch off the charger and wait a good 10 mins before reading across the battery terminals.

I would also agree that the 8,5v means your battery is kaput

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[gus-lopez]

I cannot understand the low amps of the fuses ¿

 

[DavidG58]

You now have a difficult choice, if the leisure batteries are both the original they are almost certainly getting ready to change, but in reality it is probable that only one is duff, one poorly battery will drag both down to same level, you could try disconnecting one at a time, this might be difficult due to access but might see you through till you get home if you can find the bad one. One will probably have less than 12V the other 12.5v +

If 07 batteries it is probably best to change both anyway, that seems to be the recommendation to do both or all at same time, but you might prefer to get home and have them checked first, it might be something else that is wrong

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I cannot understand the low amps of the fuses ¿

Me neither. Part numbers or something?

Obviously not current ratings.

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[Don Quixote]

Firstly as already stated your batteries are dead sorry to say. Then there is the fuse? I'm not sure why they fitted such a low rating, I think they should be at least 20amp, but will be corrected by someone here if I'm wrong.
Not sure where you are in France,but there is a battery mega store in France and they deliver. Do not pay through the nose for batteries and you will in France and Spain.

 

[Mags52]

Thanks folks. I am completely ignorant about these things so can't explain the fuses. There were two small blade fuses coming out of two wires from the solar controller. One on thicker wire has 7 on it, the smaller one had 2.5 but I only had a 3 to replace it with so put that in. The batteries are not the originals. I've seen the receipts and as far as I can remember they are only about a year old. One other fuse on the van (for the step) was far too small according to the dealer so that when it blew they put a bigger one on. I was worried about changing the blown fuse for another bigger one but could do that if it's safe to do so. I've been to Carrefour and bought a box of 30 fuses! LOL
I can disconnect one of the batteries and try the other. Earlier today I disconnected the mains and the reading fell to 12.5 immediately. I then put on two lights and the kitchen fan and it fell to 12.1 within three minutes.
Am I right in thinking it shouldn't fall that fast?

 

[Don Quixote]

You are right they should sit at 12.7 or better as soon as you remove the EHU supply and drop under load, but very slowly. In my case when sun goes down ( no EHU ) the batteries sit at 12.7++ for some time and then using/drawing 5/7amps all evening they drop to 12.6 or 12.5 after about 5 hours. As soon as I switch off everything before going to bed they recover back to 12.7 in about 15/20 minutes. Then next day sun tops them back up.
I think you need to replace your batteries now.

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[TheCaller]

Earlier today I disconnected the mains and the reading fell to 12.5 immediately. I then put on two lights and the kitchen fan and it fell to 12.1 within three minutes.
Am I right in thinking it shouldn't fall that fast?

Doesn't sound good.

Did the reading go back up when you switched the fan off again or did it stay down at 12.1?

What is the make and model number of your controller?

 

[pappajohn]

Just after being taken off charge the batteries should read 13.6v for up to an hour if nothing is turned on.
Turning on a light or similar will drop the volts pretty quick to around 12.6v.
The fan will have a higher current and will drop the volts rapidly but after a few minutes, once turned off again, the volts should rise back to 12.6v.
This generally only happens with a good battery.
If the volts done rise to around what they were after a few minutes use then the battery is not holding a charge.

 

[Madwife]

Sorry Mags and Shirley, think the batteries are to use the words of Mrs Brown "fecked". The same thing happened to us last year when we arrived in Portugal. We replaced the batteries and no further problem.

Kath

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[Mags52]

Not sure where you are in France,but there is a battery mega store in France and they deliver. Do not pay through the nose for batteries and you will in France and Spain.

Thanks for this good advice. I found Broken Link Removed and it looks like the right kind to me (deep cycle) but would appreciate any thoughts on whether it's what we should buy. It's certainly a big saving on the local dealer's price. We're on a site at the moment so could ask if they would allow delivery here.
If we did go down this route would it be ok to simply replace the batteries or should they be fully charged first?
Thanks again - this Forum is fantastic.
Mags

 

[Mags52]

Doesn't sound good.

Did the reading go back up when you switched the fan off again or did it stay down at 12.1?

What is the make and model number of your controller?

I couldn't find the model number but here is a picture of it. I'm checking what happens without the electric hook up now and will answer the other part of the question shortly.
Thanks
Mags

 

[Don Quixote]

Thanks for this good advice. I found Broken Link Removed and it looks like the right kind to me (deep cycle) but would appreciate any thoughts on whether it's what we should buy. It's certainly a big saving on the local dealer's price. We're on a site at the moment so could ask if they would allow delivery here.
If we did go down this route would it be ok to simply replace the batteries or should they be fully charged first?
Thanks again - this Forum is fantastic.
Mags

It looks fine and I think if you call them they will deliver to camp site.

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[DP+JAY]

In your link to the regulator it states that the charge light flickering indicated it is in float mode.
this is because either the battery or mains charger voltage is 13.6v OTA.

 

[Mags52]

In your link to the regulator it states that the charge light flickering indicated it is in float mode.
this is because either the battery or mains charger voltage is 13.6v OTA.

Sorry - what is OTA?

 

[DP+JAY]

Sorry
Or There Abouts

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[Mags52]

Doesn't sound good.

Did the reading go back up when you switched the fan off again or did it stay down at 12.1?

OK tried again this morning off hook up. Numbers look better. Immediately off hook up it read 13.1 then put on lights and fan. It dropped to 12.7 immediately then after half an hour dropped to 12.4. Also ran pump for a few minutes in that time. Switched everything off and it went back to 12.7 and has since gone up to 12.8. Of course solar panel is still on.
I'm thinking we should go to a local dealer and ask them to run a check on them. In the meantime I'll leave the hook up off for a few hours to see what happens. Does that seem like a good plan?
Mags

 

[DP+JAY]

Dealer will almost certainly try to sell you new batteries.
It's looking better so I would try using it for a day or so maybe with the mains charger turned off.

 

[Badknee]

Dealer will almost certainly try to sell you new batteries.
It's looking better so I would try using it for a day or so maybe with the mains charger turned off.

Wot 'e sed.

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[TheCaller]

We decided to go on site to get the benefit of electric hook up to charge them properly but I now see that the charge light is flickering. Don't know if this means it is fully charged of if it's registering a fault. Leisure batteries now read 13.5 but we are on hook up so this might not be an accurate measure.
Can anyone advise about the flickering charge light? the load light is solid green.
I can't see our model of controller on the net to get instructions.

I've found the manual - such as it is.
The charge light flickering is, as other have said, the expected behaviour when on hook up. The mains charger will raise the voltage at the battery terminals to a level where the solar charge controller believes the batteries to be fully charged, so it goes into float mode. Off is no charge, On is charging, Flickering (blinking) is float, which on that controller is 13.7V.

Your numbers do look better, but may be misleading. The solar panel will be responsible for the 13.5V you are seeing rather than the batteries themselves. You would need to repeat the test after dark, with the mains charger also turned off. If the voltage only drops to 12.4 & then recovers to 12.6 (or thereabouts), then the batteries should keep you going for a while yet, now you have solar charging working again.

Another reason for delaying is that if you are going to the expense of new batteries & you want to spend time off-site, then I would also change the controller. Although it appears to be working, it is a very basic model & may not be doing your batteries any favours. If you stick with it, note that it is only suitable for open-cell lead acid batteries - not Gel or AGM.

 

[Mags52]

Right enough it was after dark that it went really txts up.
This is a steep learning curve. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Pilote87]

Thanks for this good advice. I found Broken Link Removed and it looks like the right kind to me (deep cycle) but would appreciate any thoughts on whether it's what we should buy. It's certainly a big saving on the local dealer's price. We're on a site at the moment so could ask if they would allow delivery here.
If we did go down this route would it be ok to simply replace the batteries or should they be fully charged first?
Thanks again - this Forum is fantastic.
Mags

Mags, Your link indicates this is for a starter battery - Batterie de demarrage - not a leisure battery.

If you can't find what you want on Battery megastore site try this one Broken Link Removed100_pourcent_batterie.htm.

Le Bon Coin is a free selling web site, here in France, used by private and commercial sellers. I have had good service from this vendor earlier this year. If I remember correctly, he gives a discount for two identical batteries. If you need help with translation, etc., there are people on here ready to help out.

J

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[Mags52]

Mags, Your link indicates this is for a starter battery - Batterie de demarrage - not a leisure battery.

If you can't find what you want on Battery megastore site try this one Broken Link Removed100_pourcent_batterie.htm.

Le Bon Coin is a free selling web site, here in France, used by private and commercial sellers. I have had good service from this vendor earlier this year. If I remember correctly, he gives a discount for two identical batteries. If you need help with translation, etc., there are people on here ready to help out.

J

Thanks for that - it's really helpful advice. I wasn't sure as the translation said deep cycle but also starter motor. Anyway we've decided to go and see the local dealer. We want to be sure that there isn't another problem with the controller or even the solar panel.
I'll keep folks posted once we've been to see them tomorrow.
Thanks again
Mags

 

[PhilandMena]

Hi, A leisure battery should easily last more than a year provided it has not been abused, is the wrong type, which yours appears to be or is being incorrectly charged by the charging unit. (Gel batteries require a different setting than AGM or lead acid).
I think you need to do a bit of an investigation and establish what is going on in your motorhome otherwise you may find yourself in the same situation again after replacing your batteries. Two x 85 AH batteries and a 120W solar panel should provide you with ample electricity for at least a week if not longer. However, it depends on what power you are drawing from your batteries on a day to day basis when not using hook up. If your taking out more than you're putting in you will eventually end up in the same position again.
Most modern motorhomes have 12 V TV's LED lighting and a 3 way fridge freezer so the minimum amount of electricity is taken from the leisure batteries.
If you can continue on 'hook up' then wait until you get back in the UK and then get a competent person to help you understand what is going on with your motorhome.
If you're going to replace your two leisure batteries (and on this point you may need to do a drop test to establish if they are any good but my gut feeling is they are no longer holding a charge sufficiently long enough to be of any value), go for Banner Energy Bull batteries or Vatra. These two without doubt are the best on the market.
I've attached some links that will help you understand how leisure batteries work and how to do some basic calculations to establish battery state and if your battery bank is big enough.
Don't worry, it's just a learning curve and soon you will be sorted.
Broken Link Removed
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/13871919/ccmnovtechnical.pdf?type=archive
Safe travels

 

[PhilandMena]

I was worried about changing the blown fuse for another bigger one but could do that if it's safe to do so. I've been to Carrefour and bought a box of 30 fuses! LOL

Fuses are safety devices. They are there to protect you and the electrical circuit they are fitted too. They work by by melting when a too high a current passess through them. Replacing them with a bigger one increases a fire risk and damage to electrical components in the electrical circut they are protecting. DO NOT PUT BIGGER FUSES IN.

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