spilt charge,, leisure to engine battery (1 Viewer)

[lou020]

Is it possible to put a split charge relay between the leisure battery and the engine battery so when on solar power it keeps the engine battery topped up.

The sargent EC325 says i can't,but ithink that is if using the inbuilt controller.
But i'm using a separate solar controller.

 

[Don Quixote]

I bought Baster master from Jim and recommend it as it's fit and forget. Took about 10 minutes to fit.

http://shop.motorhomefun.co.uk/product/battery-master/

 

[Kool Kroozer]

Battery Master, as above post, very easy to fit and it trickle charges power from leisure to engine if it falls below a certain level to assure your van always has enough juice to turn the engine over... ideally if you have solar panels... the small box has a neon light on it that stays green when the engine battery is topped up, if you turn the ignition on without starting the engine after a while you will notice the green light flashing red - this means its putting charge into the engine battery - for such a small little thing its very clever and effective, had ours fit around 2 years now and been great - very simple to fit (just a couple of wires) had it fit originally as the engine battery would go flat after a week to 2 weeks without being used - but now not had any problems, always fires up straight off the first turn of the key no matter how long its been ! and not expensive too !

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[lou020]

Thanks for your replies, do you use the same size wiring as the bat master. As I've read that you should use 4mm. 6mm & even 10mm sq.

 

[Kool Kroozer]

cant be 100% on that, its been 2 yrs ago since i fitted mine, i must have used some extension wire on one of the leads for it to reach the engine battery but dont know what size it was - sorry not much help..

 

[TheCaller]

The Battery Master is only keeping the engine battery topped up - it's in effect a trickle charger, so there is no need for the thick wiring you would use for full rate battery charging.

It's maximum charge rate is only just over 1A - enough to keep the engine battery healthy.

See here for details.

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[Bartyfixedit]

I use a smartcom relay with a 100W rated 1.6 ohm resistor to feed VB from LB. Works a treat. The resistor prevents any excess currents such as when starting the engine.

 

[Gromett]

I have a B2B charger installed. If I install a battery master will it cause the B2B charger to think that the engine is on and start a loop?

 

[FULL TIMER]

Is it possible to put a split charge relay between the leisure battery and the engine battery so when on solar power it keeps the engine battery topped up.

The sargent EC325 says i can't,but ithink that is if using the inbuilt controller.
But i'm using a separate solar controller.

If you are using a separate solar controller why not use one designed for the job of charging two separate battery banks, we have this fitted http://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/...roller--regulator-for-12V--24V-batteries.html easy to fit and is adjustable ie 75% charge to one bank 25% to the other or any other mix you want,

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[Don Quixote]

I have a B2B charger installed. If I install a battery master will it cause the B2B charger to think that the engine is on and start a loop?

Not mate, I have one fitted and works no problem. B2B is not effected.

 

[eddie]

I have a B2B charger installed. If I install a battery master will it cause the B2B charger to think that the engine is on and start a loop?

No

 

[Don Quixote]

I have Eddie's one it's fit and forget. Perfect.

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[TheCaller]

If you are using a separate solar controller why not use one designed for the job of charging two separate battery banks,

I think that makes sense if you are in the market for a new controller anyway, but one advantage of the Battery Master (or similar) is that it will trickle charge the engine battery no matter what the charging source for the habitation battery. So charging the habitation battery on EHU also keeps the engine battery topped up. A dual output controller only tops up the engine battery while the sun is shining.

The OP doesn't need this facility of the Battery Master quite so much, because his Sargent unit can charge both batteries when on EHU, although he does have to manually select one at a time. I'm assuming the only reason he is using a separate controller at all is that his panel(s) are more than the 100w the Sargent will handle, because the Sargent does charge both batteries simultaneously via its inbuilt solar panel controller.

 

[daveandsan]

Hope no one minds me hijacking this thread but while we are on about split chargers does anyone know the best way to fit one to the auxiliary battery on a Ford Transit.
I have one from leisure battery to the engine battery, don't know what make but it is a Italian jobby and does a good job in keeping the engine battery topped up.
Do I buy another split charger and take it from the leisure battery or could I take the feed from the engine battery to the auxiliary battery, which would be much easier as they are under the same seat.
The only time the auxiliary battery charges is when the engine is running, it does not charge when on ehu which means I can't use the cab 12v sockets.

 

[Gromett]

No

I like you short and to the point answer Can I return the favour...
Why?

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[lou020]

I think that makes sense if you are in the market for a new controller anyway, but one advantage of the Battery Master (or similar) is that it will trickle charge the engine battery no matter what the charging source for the habitation battery. So charging the habitation battery on EHU also keeps the engine battery topped up. A dual output controller only tops up the engine battery while the sun is shining.

The OP doesn't need this facility of the Battery Master quite so much, because his Sargent unit can charge both batteries when on EHU, although he does have to manually select one at a time. I'm assuming the only reason he is using a separate controller at all is that his panel(s) are more than the 100w the Sargent will handle, because the Sargent does charge both batteries simultaneously via its inbuilt solar panel controller.

The above post is exactly what i want.... iv'e got one of those fancy controllers that @Techno100 uses, and i've acquired a durite VSR split charge relay.
Could i just break into the feed from the leisure batteries and engine battery that goes into the sargent unit, instead of running new cables down to the batteries.

 

[premiere99]

I have an EC325 unit on my Autotrail Cheyenne 635, like @lou020 I also have the same 25a mppt solar charge regulator and I bypass the EC325 as it only has 1.5mm cable to the battery. I fitted a Split Charge System 12V 140amp Intelligent Voltage Sense Relay with 110amp Ready Made Leads and put a Ctek battery charger in the Fiat battery box so both starter and leisure batteries are charged via the 290 Watt solar, engine alternator and when on 240v the Ctek battery charger.
Another plus with the above setup allowed me to cut the Red/Yellow Engine running signal at the EC325 so the habitation 12v is always on, normally cutting this would I understand stop the EC325 charger from working but mine is turned off.

 

[MikeandCarolyn]

I've read several posts like this-our 2005 LMC Liberty just does it,why dont other vans ?

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[lou020]

The habitation cut off when you start the engine is a pain,iv'e seen a previous thread/post which shows how to do this inside the 325 unit.
Mine charges every thing fine when on hook up,although i have to manually switch over to the engine battery every now and then.
All i want to do is put a split charge between the hab batteries and the engine battery so that it tops up the engine battery when on solar.
i can't use the EC 325 built in solar unit because it only goes up to 100w and i have 200w.
I dont want to use a dual controller because i already have a good controller.
The wires running from the EC 325 to the batteries look quite thick may be 3mm. so i could maybe break into them.
PS.

I've read several posts like this-our 2005 LMC Liberty just does it,why dont other vans ?

Because it's an Autotrail.

 

[premiere99]

I asked Sargent almost the same question in 2013, the answer from them was

"The EC325 incorporates an intelligent split charging system rather than a split charging relay which already charges the leisure batteries when the engine is running. This system uses part of the main charging circuit, and using battery master type devices can cause problems by interfering with the charge circuit. It also incorporates a dual channel regulator, again using part of the main charger circuit which will charge leisure and vehicle batteries with panels up to 100W.
So, you have various options:

Use the battery master device but fit an inline relay to remove it from circuit when the engine is started.
Replace your single channel regulator with a dual channel regulator.
Connect one of the panels through the EC325, an one through your existing regulator."

My answer was dump the Sargent "charging circuit" by removing the F8 fuse on the EM50, fit a VSR split charge relay and 16mm cable (110amp), use a Ctek multistage 12v charger and then both batteries get max charge from engine, solar or 240v. 3mm cable will just trickle charge them. Then you cut the red/yellow wire and get 12v habitation when you want it not when the NCC decrees.

 

[eddie]

I like you short and to the point answer Can I return the favour...
Why?

Cos is don't!

lol The engine battery is secondary to the leisure battery so will always be circa .75 VDC below it, without even taking into account the voltage drop from the quiescent drain on the engine battery by such things as clock memory, ECU, factory built in immobilisers, after market car alarms, radio memory function, tracking systems.

The B2B devices are normally VS (Voltage sensing) so will expect to see a terminal voltage in the region of 14.4 - 14.8 VDC and the "trickle charge" effect of the Battery Master just wont achieve this, using the leisure battery as its supply.

The Leisure battery in this instance is the smoothing circuit for the trickle charge to keep the engine battery OK

It's a trickle down effect not a "charge up" function.

Some cheap and nasty Voltage Sensing Relays (VSR) that are after market sold, originally designed for the caravan market to make 12s plugs easier to install can be affected, but that isn't our intended market

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[Gromett]

Cos is don't!

Thanks Eddie, I am on the verge of ordering now.

I understand the voltage difference your device requires. However my concern is that my B2B is triggered when it senses 13V after waiting for 150 seconds. My Sterling Pro battery charger is set to 14.5V charge voltage. When it hits this voltage the .75V difference you mention will mean 13.75 volts on the vehicle side which is above the 13V trigger voltage on the B2B.......

You can see my concern?... I am a qualified electronics technician but I have not touched electronics in over 20 years so I am extremely rusty. You can get very technical with me to explain what I am missing. I want to order one of these but need to understand how it will interact with my existing kit. I am not a fan of black boxes I don't understand and yours is an epoxy sealed black box ....

Any info you can give would be appreciated

 

[Don Quixote]

@Gromett as already stated I have B2B and the master master fitted and to date not a problem.

 

[eddie]

Hi Carl we normally fit a BM with every B2B we install actually at the B2B terminals

I will send you one FOC as a thank you for all of the help that you give Jim on behalf of Motorhome Fun

I know where you are

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[Gromett]

Hi Carl we normally fit a BM with every B2B we install actually at the B2B terminals

I will send you one FOC as a thank you for all of the help that you give Jim on behalf of Motorhome Fun

I know where you are

Wow!, Thank you Eddie that is extremely kind of you. I was going to be wiring it to directly to the terminals of the B2B as I have 25mm cable already wired in for it so would seem a bit daft to run another thinner cable as well.

Currently I have a CTEK MX5 charger wired in but it doesn't quite do the job as it charges up the battery nicely but then lets it discharge a fair way before charging again. I usually time it so that I want to start the van at the lowest point of the charge cycle. The battery master sounds like it will fix my starting issues..

Thanks again

 

[Moodybrook]

You love spending money you lot

http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING FUSE.htm

Keep it simple, keep it cheap 3.5 m of 6 or 10mmsq cable a few cable ties and a fuse carrier.

 

[Gromett]

You love spending money you lot

http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING FUSE.htm

Keep it simple, keep it cheap 3.5 m of 6 or 10mmsq cable a few cable ties and a fuse carrier.

And carry lots of spare fuses for the all the times you forget to take it out before starting. Also carry a battery booster for the times when you forget to put the fuse back in. A fit and forget device if it works is worth the money to me at least.

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[lou020]

oi, i started this thread,,can i have one...........i have today ordered one from jim.

 

[Moodybrook]

spare fuses

I actually use a 12v 20A trip switch(pretty safe level) as used by the boom box hi fi enthusiasts. I have started up the laccy band several times having forgot to "trip/open the connection" and surprise surprise the world did not come to an end. the trip didn't trip either.

On another thread we concluded that not much happens if your leisures and the vehicle batt are by and large charged hence no huge draw of amps from the alternator ??? or something like that.
Fuses are I agree MEGABUCKS all of £1 a dozen. if you are really skint, fag packet metal foil

The main time of finding a dead vehicle batt is after being laid up, whilst either inside a shed and the Solar has no chance to keep you "charged up" or if laid up and no hook up (should you not have solar), or if it has been sun deficient for an extended period. Lash out, break the bank and make a removable sign that affixes on the steering wheel whilst your fuse is functionally connected ! OR the vehicle battery is past its sell (knacked) by date Can provide a linky to the trip fuses about a fiver from China delivery within 10 days (mine were). http://www.bimblesolar.com/20a-dc-breaker. A UK supplier, dearer but you would get them quicker

The simple answer is that it WORKS. enjoy

 

[hilldweller]

You love spending money you lot.

Some of don't do crude. Esp when a nice Italian company CBE do a unit for about £20.

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