Seatbelts in Rear-Lounge motorhomes (1 Viewer)

[Jem Cotton]

Hi all,

I'm a relative newbie, having hired a van for a couple of weeks to help find out what works and what doesn't for our needs.

For most trips we'll go as a couple, but we'll occasionally take our grand-kids on excursions. As my wife doesn't really get on with the over-cab bed configuration, we favour a rear lounge (U or L shaped). However, it seems that just about all the vans I've seen with rear lounges have only 2 travelling seats, which means the kids can't travel with us !

Does anyone know of any exceptions to this rule - or of course if it's possible to retro-fit some extra belts to the rear seats ?

Thanks a mill in advance, Jem

 

[Jim]

Hi Jem, welcome to the Fun. Re seatbelts; take a look here Broken Link Removed

 

[Zains Pops]

We have a Geist Spirit with seat belts factory fitted into the rear U shaped lounge. The vans are marketed under the Geist and TEC brand names and manufactured by LMC.
The seat belts work fine and are complete with associated back rests and are all folded away when not in use so as not to clutter the space.
However it does mean that any rear passengers are a long way from the driver which can be both an advantage and a disadvantage depending on how well behaved they are!!

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[hilldweller]

For most trips we'll go as a couple, but we'll occasionally take our grand-kids on excursions.

Don't compromise your 99.9% usage for that 0.1%.

A MH is a very very confined space, no privacy, you can't fart in the toilet without sharing it with all, so not brilliant for "family" holidays. Add in weight of grandchildren and the possibility is you'll be overloaded as they grow up.

 

[Jem Cotton]

Hi both. I've had a read of the seatbelts article ta. Regardless of the law, I wouldn't have anyone travel without proper restraints, so my search for the ideal layout goes on.

I've found a Geist Spirit 598 on Autotrader which has a rear lounge and seat belts at the back, and this appears to fit the bill nicely. It's also under 6.5 mtrs long which means I can take it on the Isle of Man ferry without hassle. The van looks great, so I'll go explore some more. Thanks very much for the info !

Cheers Jem

 

[DanielFord]

Swift do a few u-shaped lounge models, we have one of them, a swift sundance 630L which has 6 belted seats, but that is almost certainly too long for you at 7.3 metres. Another option would be the swift voyager 695EL, this has 4 belted seats and a u-shaped lounge, and although smaller, usually attracts a higher second hand price than the sundance.
Both models have the 'spare' belted seats in the dinette area.
Hope this helps.

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[pappajohn]

Would you really want your grandkids in the rear lounge seats....belts or not ?

Theres a couple of inches of foam, a bit of thin plywood inside and an outer skin of thin plastic between them and the 40tons of artic truck which just rear ended you cos the driver fell asleep at the wheel.

 

[Tootles]

Hi Jem, welcome to the Fun. Re seatbelts; take a look here Broken Link Removed

Just read the very interesting and essential advice on your link Jim, however, I do believe that retro fitting seat belts to a vehicle not type approved to accept extra seat belt anchorages is illegal, and can bring a severe fine and/or a prison sentence.
Not nit-picking by any means, just thought to mention this for any one thinking of retro fitting extra belts.

 

[lorger]

You could go for a van with front diner and rear lounge they normally have belts in the front lounge/diner area

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[Anthony496]

Bessacarr 496
Auto trail Apache 700
Roller team have just released a rear lounge 6 birth

the above have 6 belted traveling seats with u shaped lounge

 

[scotzsue]

Our old van, escape 686 had u shaped lounge, double dinette, overcab bed and 6 belted seats, 6.9 m in length, great for taking the grandchildren away, but also worked very well for just 2, had 'you and me' space, could have kids at back well away from cooking facilities if need be. Loved it, lot of other vans with same layout available.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Would you really want your grandkids in the rear lounge seats....belts or not ?

Theres a couple of inches of foam, a bit of thin plywood inside and an outer skin of thin plastic between them and the 40tons of artic truck which just rear ended you cos the driver fell asleep at the wheel.

If a thin bit of plywood and outer skin won't stop an artic the extra 15 feet of air having them sit nearer the front sure as hell won't. Another dig at truck drivers on this forum I see, maybe if everyone didn't expect supermarkets open 24hrs and things delivered 5 minutes after they order them then truck drivers wouldn't have to do 15 hr days to feed everyone's ' must have it now' addiction.

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[Jim]

Another dig at truck drivers on this forum I see

Rear ended by a push bike probably wouldn't hurt but a 40 ton truck will. Where was the dig at drivers?

 

[TheBig1]

I saw a damaged repairable van for sale recently. had been rear ended by a delivery van and the back was split wide open like a cardboard box. anyone in the rear of the van would of been seriously hurt. the damage was mostly limited to the rear 12 inches of the van.
New back panel and repair the furniture and floor, it will be back on the road soon. there really isn't much about the structure of motorhomes more than a caravan

 

[Jim]

They do break up on impact.

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[mitzimad]

Just read the very interesting and essential advice on your link Jim, however, I do believe that retro fitting seat belts to a vehicle not type approved to accept extra seat belt anchorages is illegal, and can bring a severe fine and/or a prison sentence.
Not nit-picking by any means, just thought to mention this for any one thinking of retro fitting extra belts.

Just read the very interesting and essential advice on your link Jim, however, I do believe that retro fitting seat belts to a vehicle not type approved to accept extra seat belt anchorages is illegal, and can bring a severe fine and/or a prison sentence.
Not nit-picking by any means, just thought to mention this for any one thinking of retro fitting extra belts.

not true or we wouldnt have any self built cars or motorhomes there are a set of regs around that give sizes of reinforcement for seats and belt mounting

 

[Tootles]

not true or we wouldnt have any self built cars or motorhomes there are a set of regs around that give sizes of reinforcement for seats and belt mounting

PASSENGER VEHICLES SUBJECT TO MODIFICATION / CONVERSION


EVIDENCE OF COMPLIANCE FOR SEAT BELT ANCHORAGES



Unmodified mass produced vehicles must at the time of application provide evidence of directive or comparable standards for seatbelt anchorages.


Vehicles subject to the fitting of additional anchorages e.g. following the first stage of build are similarly required to provide evidence of compliance for the complete installation, even though various components may individually have traceability to a technical standard.


Directive testing of the anchorages require that the system is subjected to considerable loads to verify that components are strong enough to withstand the significant forces that are generated in an accident.


In the past seatbelt anchorages would have been a reinforced part of the floor of the vehicle. However it is now commonplace for seat mounted seatbelts. In these instances the anchorage system consists of floor, seat and seat leg.


DVSA will accept evidence of approval testing from a technical service for seatbelt anchorages in modified or converted vehicles however the severity of the testing is likely to damage the vehicle.


In order to ensure directive compliance without destructive in-vehicle testing applicants must supply evidence to DVSA for them to determine that the installed system would meet directive requirements if tested destructively.


The only practical and cost effective means for DVSA to approve seatbelt anchorage systems during the IVA inspection, in accordance with the regulations, is to mandate that all installed components in the system can be traced back to directive tested components.


This alone is not sufficient to ensure directive compliance; it is vital the components are compatible and have been fitted correctly.


The process is reliant on ensuring that converters, manufacturers and component suppliers take responsibility for ensuring seatbelt anchorages are installed within the confines of directive testing evidence.


DVSA is not in a position to approve vehicles where unapproved components have been used in the seatbelt anchorage system. However a technical service may be able to provide satisfactory testing evidence.


The following two documents are considered satisfactory evidence for seatbelt anchorages compliance.








v1.2 Oct 2014



1. Component list, compliance and compatibility declaration (IVA19a) – Must be submitted at application stage


In order to overcome the risk of component suppliers not providing information to a vehicle converter in a manner that clearly outlines the compatibility and installation requirements, DVSA will require a declaration from either a technical service or flooring system manufacturer with the information detailed in this document as an absolute minimum. The technical service or flooring manufacturer may provide their own declaration, however it must contain at least the information requested in the IVA 19a.


In order to produce the document, a technical service or the flooring manufacturer must determine the compatibility of the various components and detail limits of testing evidence. The document will allow a converter to install the system correctly and DVSA examiners to relatively quickly verify that the correct components are fitted, within the limits of testing evidence.


When the vehicle is inspected by DVSA, the seatbelt anchorage system will be inspected to verify it complies with all details listed on the declaration.


NOTE - Untested base vehicle chassis comparison report – If required, must be submitted at application stage


There may be instances where a converter chooses to convert a vehicle that does not have supporting vehicle specific testing evidence available.


In such instances, DVSA recommend that prior to purchase or conversion of such a vehicle, vehicle converters must ensure that a flooring manufacturer or a technical service are prepared to provide evidence and a statement that the vehicle would perform in a similar manner, based on technical comparison of the vehicle structure with that of a tested comparable vehicle. This information would need to be submitted in support of the above declaration.



2. Installation Declaration from vehicle converter or manufacturer (IVA19b) – Must be submitted at inspection (if not submitted with application).


Compliance with directive requirements is dependent on the seatbelt anchorage system being installed correctly in accordance with manufacturers’ guidelines whilst adhering to the limits imposed by available testing evidence. The installation declaration ensures that the converter/manufacturer is aware of the testing limits and installation guidelines provided by the component manufacturer.


When the vehicle is inspected, DVSA will check to ensure the declaration is signed by the installer and the examiner may choose to verify the installation against best practice or fitting instructions supplied by the seatbelt anchorage component manufacturers.
















v1.2 Oct 2014

 

[jonandshell]

They do break up on impact.

Yep!

Ask yourself again, do you REALLY want your grandkids sat right at the back?

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[TheWM]

Hiya,

I was in the same predicament, trying to find a rear lounge MH @ 6.5m with 4 seatbelts.

If you are outside the LEZ, there are one or two options; however, the only MH that fitted the bill for us was a Rapido 9010 DF. It's brilliant, but they are hard to come by.

 

[Big bus man]

My understanding regarding seatbelts in Motorhomes is that you may carry a greater number of passengers than there are seatbelts, however all the seatbelts must be used, other passengers must be seated, but am i wrong??