Travelling with passenger seat facing backwards. (1 Viewer)

[Deleted member 29692]

Don't know if anyone can help with a definitive answer rather than guesses or opinions but I thought I'd ask anyway.

Tomorrow I have the great misfortune to be travelling with 3 15 year olds down to Beautiful Days. Nicola has escaped the hell that this journey will be and is travelling with @St piran

Our van has the swivel type cab seats and the passenger one will lock into place facing backwards i.e. 180° around from normal.

My question is, because it is facing rearwards, not sideways or at any angle, is it legal to travel, with someone sat in it, in this position because then they can grunt at each other all the way down instead of one of them tormenting me.

 

[DanielFord]

I would say no, because a seatbelt cannot be worn in that position, the clip is on the wrong side in 'reverse' mode!

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I would say no, because a seatbelt cannot be worn in that position, the clip is on the wrong side in 'reverse' mode!

The seatbelt could be worn in ours as the entire seatbelt arrangement is part of the seat so it swivels with everything else. Thanks for the reply though

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DanielFord]

The seatbelt could be worn in ours as the entire seatbelt arrangement is part of the seat so it swivels with everything else. Thanks for the reply though

I have never seen such an arrangement, and therefore stand corrected. In which case, I cannot think of any law that you (or more correctly the 15yo) would be breaking travelling in such a manner.

 

[DBK]

I suspect the seat may also not be designed to take the weight of someone hitting it from that direction if you had a head-on crash. It is a similar problem to why turning aircraft seats round to face backwards, as the RAF used to do on VC10s (and may still do) can't be done by other airlines just turning round their seats. The seats have to be designed to be used backwards as the weight of the body hits the back of the seat very high up. Of course in a car you could be rear-ended which would create forces on the back of the seat but I suspect they would be much less than you would experience running into something solid and stationary.

 

[DanielFord]

@DBK he did ask about legality, not safety ;-)

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I have never seen such an arrangement, and therefore stand corrected. In which case, I cannot think of any law that you (or more correctly the 15yo) would be breaking travelling in such a manner.

It's an A class so there's nothing of the original fitting points left.

@DBK he did ask about legality, not safety ;-)

One would lead onto the other. I imagine it could be safe but still not legal rather than the other way round.

 

[Paddywack]

My only concern would be can you see the passenger wing mirror?

 

[DanielFord]

One would lead onto the other. I imagine it could be safe but still not legal rather than the other way round.

In actual fact usually the opposite is true, many things that are legal are very unsafe. Tobacco, Alcohol, legal highs etc, there really isn't any link between legality and safety.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Phill D]

this is not going to help much ... but; baby seats are fitted in the front seats rear facing! so why not, also our Adria has a rear facing seat which you can make up and only requires a lap belt.

 

[Gellyneck]

I think, stress think, that the seats have to be fixed in their location for travelling. Does your passenger seat locked into the "reversed" position? Ours doesn't.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

My only concern would be can you see the passenger wing mirror?

It has the high "bus" type mirrors so they aren't obstructed.

I think, stress think, that the seats have to be fixed in their location for travelling. Does your passenger seat locked into the "reversed" position? Ours doesn't.

Yes it does.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Phill D]

as you know many motorhomes have rear facing seats with lap belts. if the seat locks rear facing and the belt is fully operational cant see what the problem would be. its only because its the front seat your thinking about it... IMHO.

 

[Paddywack]

In that case I would say shouldn't be a problem, the seat anchors and seat belts are built to take a hit from any direction, so on that basis will be equally strong regarding of way its facing. Not being very clear but a front ender with seat backwards will place the same forces as a rear ender with seat forwards... hope that makes sense?

 

[DanielFord]

I would say on reflection, that it must be both safe and legal. The seat must in fact incorporate the seat belt, and thus the seat back must be designed for impact, since it has to obtain type approval. If the seat locks into place, and you can see the mirror, I can't see an issue.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[big map]

Nick Is there anything in the manual about travelling whilst the seat is rear facing? Alternatively 3 rail or national express tickets

 

[Deleted member 29692]

as you know many motorhomes have rear facing seats with lap belts. if the seat locks rear facing and the belt is fully operational cant see what the problem would be. its only because its the front seat your thinking about it... IMHO.

That's my thinking. I just wondered if anyone could tell me 100% for certain if it's legal or not. I suppose Mr Plod will soon let me know if there's a problem.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Nick Is there anything in the manual about travelling whilst the seat is rear facing? Alternatively 3 rail or national express tickets

The manual say nothing about the seats at all.

Hmm. Rail or bus.

These are three 15 year old front row forwards we're talking about. If I let them do that they would end up in three different locations all of them wrong!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Mel]

Yes I think its OK
I have done the same thing(Rapido A class)
My only sugestion whoul be to turn the passenger air bag off.
As this whould hit the seat very hard in a accident.
With bus mirrors vision is no problem

 

[Chris]

We have 2 rear facing dinette fully belted seats so I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem.

I don't think the mechanism in the rear facing seatbelt is any different to that on the front seat.

 

[Mel]

That's my thinking. I just wondered if anyone could tell me 100% for certain if it's legal or not. I suppose Mr Plod will soon let me know if there's a problem.

Unless its a very well trained Mr Plod they wont have a clue.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[big map]

Found two lots of guidance https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/overview and Motor vehicles: seat belts and child restraints Section 1.2 Wearing of seat belts: adults The law governing the wearing of seat belts by adults travelling in the front and rear of a car is currently set out in the Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts) Regulations 1993 (SI 1993/176), as amended. It has been compulsory for adults to wear seat belts in the front of cars since 31 January 19833 and in the back of cars since 1 July 1991. 4 In 1993 the regulations were consolidated 1 originally introduced by Regulations 46 and 47 of the Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1966 (SI 1966/1288) 2 originally introduced by the Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No 4) Regulations 1985 (SI 1985/2039) 3 originally introduced by the Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts) Regulations 1982 (SI 1982/1203) 4 originally introduced by the Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts in Rear Seats by Adults) Regulations 1991 (SI 1991/1255) 2 and slightly amended to fit in with the relevant European legislation.5 In summary, the general rules for adults are: • when travelling in the front seat of any vehicle, an adult must wear a seat belt if one is available; and • when travelling in the back seat of a car an adult must wear a seat belt if it is available. Under section 14 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, as amended, it is an offence for an adult not to wear a seat belt where one is provided. This is punishable by a maximum fine of £500 (Level 2), as set out in Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders’ Act 1988, as amended. It is the personal responsibility of each adult occupant of a vehicle to ensure that he or she complies with the law in respect of wearing seat belts.
So my conclusion is it should be OK.

 

[PP Bear]

I bet you wished you never ask

Guess the only way is to ask the police to find out. Personally I can't see a problem and would do it in a heartbeat. The seat locks, the belt travels with the seat, it doesn't interfere with the vehicle dynamics or view, so I'd have no problem with it at all if I were you

After all the seats and seat belts are designed for both a front or rear shunt. If an impact is so great that the seat back would give, then it's a huge one and would matter so much, so go and enjoy

After all Captain Scarlet and the SPV always travelled backwards

 

[Mel]

Before anyone jumps in I am not saying there are no very well trained police officers about.
(Just not enough in the UK or here)

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Thanks all.

I'll probably let them do it.

 

[9526]

The problem with asking the cops is that they won't know either so would say no (to cover themselves)

A bit like the director at Morrisons when asked about gas.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

A bit like the director at Morrisons when asked about gas.

That's still on my list of things to do It's just that the only one local to us that sells it isn't accessible by big vehicles.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TheCaller]

Restricted vision through the side window would be the most likely problem, I would have thought - both from a practical & legal point of view. You wouldn't want to miss seeing a cyclist coming from that side while you were emerging from a junction.

If your side view is the same whichever way round the seat is, then fine. Certainly can't do it in my PVC even with an empty seat - the seat back is right in the line of sight, but an A class is a very different animal.

 

[Lenny HB]

I would say it's not legal as when the seat is rear facing it is not securely locked in position.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I would say it's not legal as when the seat is rear facing it is not securely locked in position.

See post #12. On ours it does lock in position in exactly the same way as it locks in the forward facing position.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}