You can park for 18 hours but can't sleep ? (1 Viewer)

[scotjimland]

Probably need Graham's @GJH expert knowledge on council parking matters.. but can anyone explain why you can pay to park for 18 hours in a council car park, but overnight camping is banned?

.. As I understand it, there is no legal definition of 'camping' in a vehicle.

Sign at Aldeburgh beach car park..

 

[StitchesnFluff]

A strange local council decision

 

[mjltigger]

It seems to be sort of accepted that putting internal screens or curtains up and getting into bed is parking, setting up awnings, deck chairs and satellites is camping. Whether that's what is meant in this case I guess you would have to ask the council enforcement team.

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[scotjimland]

It seems to be sort of accepted that putting internal screens or curtains up and getting into bed is parking, setting up awnings, deck chairs and satellites is camping. Whether that's what is meant in this case I guess you would have to ask the council enforcement team.

yes.. that is the 'sort of accepted' definition.. but as far as I know there is no legal definition of 'camping' in a vehicle..

 

[haganap]

How would they know you were sleeping? Could you not be meditating...

 

[irnbru]

Same sort in Blackpool car park too. When I queried it I was told "No sleeping in vehicle overnight. The car parks can be used by people perhaps not being able to park at their hotel accomodation.
If you are in bed, lights out etc then how would anyone know if you were sleeping in it or not?

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[mjltigger]

If you are in bed, lights out etc then how would anyone know if you were sleeping in it or not?

Depends how loud you snore...

 

[scotjimland]

don't suppose the owner of the camp site across the road had any hand in the matter ..

just me being cynical.. of course he didn't..

 

[Alan]

In Hove and Brighton the days parking. Covers you for 24 hours, the signs there states no sleeping overnight.
I've never had any problems though last year the police breathalised a lad that was parked behind me sleeping in his car.
Alan
Now a caravanner no legs down will I only be parking?????

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[rapido convert]

Jim,
Its impossible to enforce that rule, there is no law against sleeping in a vehicle if there was we would all starve to death as no one would have any food deliverys from waggons.
Plus you get a knock on the door in the night you either ignor then no one is in or you answer and you are not asleep.
Simples.
Cheers
Andy.

 

[GJH]

@ScotJimland @mjltigger @haganap @irnbru @rapido convert
1. What is "accepted" by anyone other than the council involved is irrelevant. Councils normally either define particular activities in their orders (e.g. cooking, sleeping) or use "human habitation" as in the 1960 Act.
2. Car parks generally only have planning permission for parking, not use as a caravan site (which, under the 1960 Act, is what a car park becomes as soon as human habitation is allowed). An application for caravan site use might well be opposed by local site owners in just the same way as business owners might object to any other application.
3. Because the definitions cover more than sleeping then it is not difficult to make a case that human habitation is taking place and issue a ticket on that basis - i.e. it is not impossible to enforce.
4. The particular case of Aldeburgh came about as a result of people taking the ****, as explained in another thread a few weeks ago (can't look for it now as I'm at Peterborough).
5. Sleeping in lay-bys &c is covered by road legislation, so is not subject to the 1960 Act and is different from car parks. See the page on my web site.

 

[scotjimland]

thanks Graham.. I knew you had the answer..

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[MicknPat]

I would think it is to stop those who may abuse the times allowed, here in Spain there are lots of areas which use to be simply car parks which now appear to be permanent motor home camp sites for free loaders

 

[John & Joan]

All the Suffolk Coast Traffic Regulation Orders are here.
Broken Link Removed



SUFFOLK COASTAL DISTRICT
COUNCIL (OFF-STREET PARKING
PLACES) ORDER 2008


"Motorised Caravan" means a motorised or self-propelled caravan, camper van, dormobile, motorhome or similar vehicle and includes any bus, coach, lorry, van or other vehicle adapted for human habitation whether permanent or temporary;

Other Uses Prohibited


No person shall except with the permission of any parking attendant or other person duly authorised by the Council drive any motor vehicle or motor-cycle in a parking place other than for the purpose of leaving that motor vehicle or motor-cycle in the parking place in accordance with the provisions of this Order or for the purpose of departing from the parking place and while a motor vehicle or motor-cycle or caravan is in any parking place no person shall use any part of that parking place;

(a) for sleeping or camping purposes;

(b) for cooking purposes;
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many local authorities ban overnight parking on their car parks. 6am to Midnight would give you 18 hours of parking.

York City ban any vehicle equipped for sleeping from parking 24/7 even if it fits under a height barrier and into a marked bay. You can only use the out of town P&R sites.

This type of ban is common in UK car parks.

 

[Terry]

Just how do they know you are sleeping ? If they knock on the door and wake you up, you answer the door then you are not sleeping Unenforceable Tell em to stop interrupting your kip
terry

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[scotjimland]

my other gripe is the number of new height barriers that have sprung up since we last toured the UK ... they are springing up like weeds .. and just as welcome..

In Scotland many pick-nick spots now have them which is effectively discrimination against owners of motorhomes.. .. .. not talking about camping or over-nighting.. just day visiting.. ie parking. not camping, and before the 'it's to stop travelers' excuse is spouted.. .. I don't buy that .. That may or may not be part of the problem.. if it is, then it should be addressed and dealt with by the law, not by installing height barriers unilaterally stopping all high vehicles from using the parking

.. IMO the main reason is to herd motorhomes into camping sites..

now that's off my chest I feel a lot better .. not..

 

[Gaston aires]

Its to stop the " Itinerants" setting up camp.
If you go up the road to Sizewell you can stay overnight.
Phil

 

[scotjimland]

Its to stop the " Itinerants" setting up camp.

and before 'it's to stop travelers' excuse is spouted.. .. I don't buy that ..

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[John.]

Same old story the councillors don't have the bottle to take the Itinerant's
On so they pick an easy target.
As in all forms of political "jobs" they feather their own nest what a bunch of useless tossers.

Sorry but they make me puke.

 

[1_man_and_his_dob(lo)]

Same old story the councillors don't have the bottle to take the Itinerant's
On so they pick an easy target.
As in all forms of political "jobs" they feather their own nest what a bunch of useless tossers.

Sorry but they make me puke.

I wish you'd stop sitting on the fence, and tell us how you really feel about it.

 

[Bobby22]

Probably need Graham's @GJH expert knowledge on council parking matters.. but can anyone explain why you can pay to park for 18 hours in a council car park, but overnight camping is banned?

.. As I understand it, there is no legal definition of 'camping' in a vehicle.

Sign at Aldeburgh beach car park..


View attachment 59485

The sign says " no overnight camping".
Is it fine to camp during the day and go off to work on the nightshift.

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[scotjimland]

Is it fine to camp during the day and go off to work on the nightshift.

yes, no reason why not... you can cook, have a barbie, go for a kip, shower, put table and chairs out etc .. sign says so ..

 

[John & Joan]

The sign says " no overnight camping".
Is it fine to camp during the day and go off to work on the nightshift.

It is the Traffic Regulation Order that counts, not the sign which simply gives warning that an order is in place.
Quote:
no person shall use any part of that parking place;

(a) for sleeping or camping purposes;

(b) for cooking purposes; End Quote.

The order does not contain any time clause, so it applies 24/7

 

[scotjimland]

It is the Traffic Regulation Order that counts, not the sign which simply gives warning that an order is in place.
Quote:
no person shall use any part of that parking place;

(a) for sleeping or camping purposes;

(b) for cooking purposes; End Quote.

The order does not contain any time clause, so it applies 24/7

I'm sure it does John..

but next time I visit I will take a picture of the sign that says what you can and cannot do ..

from memory it says you can play with a ball, fly a kite, have a barbie and picknick etc provided you don't annoy others.

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[tjay]

We should all do as the Itinerant's do turn up at a car park, have a drink or two and then tell whoever comes to move you that we cannot move because we have had drink and will have to wait 12 hours to be legal.
Good enough for them so should be good enough for us !!!

 

[voyagerstan]

We get pushed around dictated to and just accept what they say we can and cant do . Should take aleaf from the " gypos" book and not give a flying f/¥|^€ and ignore the signs ect . We are far to compliant in the uk and scared of any confrontation . stan

 

[GJH]

Just how do they know you are sleeping ? If they knock on the door and wake you up, you answer the door then you are not sleeping Unenforceable Tell em to stop interrupting your kip
terry

They don't have to know you are sleeping Terry. It's all forms of human habitation which the legal orders restrict.

my other gripe is the number of new height barriers that have sprung up since we last toured the UK ... they are springing up like weeds .. and just as welcome..

It's a matter of balancing the public interest Jim. Measures like employing opening barriers and security staff would be in our interests but if the cost is too much it would be against the public interest generally.

Same old story the councillors don't have the bottle to take the Itinerant's
On so they pick an easy target.
As in all forms of political "jobs" they feather their own nest what a bunch of useless tossers.

Sorry but they make me puke.

If you know there is a more cost effective solution, perhaps you should make the local councils concerned aware of it.

The sign says " no overnight camping".
Is it fine to camp during the day and go off to work on the nightshift.

As John said, it is the legal order which is effective. Signs are only guides.

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[Rapphil]

Have often seen vans parked "discreetly" at side of the road with their bright yellow levelling ramps deployed, bit of a giveaway to others.

 

[gus-lopez]

Does anyone actually read signs ? It is a car park end of ,for parking in . Just like the "tick box to accept you've read t&c " . We don't tick to " accept" we tick to move on & enter & God help anyone who thinks otherwise.
The councils should use the solution that any one finding Itinerants on there land does. Stubble burning.
Petrol round the outside ," you've 5 minutes" if not gone, then light it.
Same should be used when they use the drink excuse. soon as they try to move them then nicked for drink driving.

While the vast majority of local councils/ politicians/police are prepared to take the easy " cost effective" way out & be dictated to by the minority & in so doing inconveniencing & penalising the hard working & tax paying majority that are actually paying for both lots of scum , There is actually no hope.
I know why I left & why I can never return.

 

[Wildman]

fishing all night and sleeping during the day, sorted.

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