Towing (1 Viewer)

[Jim et Lou]

Before I take the plunge and get a towing A frame fitted. What do you Tec and Mec minded people think, would a Fiat 2.8 Jtdi pull BMW Z4 without any difficulty. All answers, advise and criticisms welcomed.:thumb:

 

[old-mo]

I should imagine that is a bit near the mark, weight wise...

 

[Jim et Lou]

I should imagine that is a bit near the mark, weight wise...

It has a curb weight of 1335kg

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[Vlad The Impaler]

I've just returned from a two week trip in a 2.8 it'd ,covered around 2200 miles,up steep hills down into 4th or 3rd!
Can't imagine what that would feel like with a car on the back:
just out of curiosity why would you want to tow a car behind you?



Vlad

 

[old-mo]

It has a curb weight of 1335kg

I may be wrong.... but I always thought it was the Max weight they go by...

That to me sounds daft, as you legally cannot tow a car with passengers on an "A" frame...

Hope fully some one will be along who is a bit more switched on than me...

I tow a Toyota Aygo, which is similar to your beemer,,,, But I am OK cos it is stamped in the Log Book - Max Towing/Trailer weight not to exceed 2000KG`s..

 

[Jim et Lou]

I've just returned from a two week trip in a 2.8 it'd ,covered around 2200 miles,up steep hills down into 4th or 3rd!
Can't imagine what that would feel like with a car on the back:
just out of curiosity why would you want to tow a car behind you?



Vlad

We normally stay on sites and find that to get around to see different places of interest difficult regarding parking and the likes. Your input is welcomed.:thumb:

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[TheBig1]

what are the weights? train weight and the maximum laden weight to see what the towing capacity really is.

an awkward issue regarding towing weights is the plated maximum weight of the trailer is the applicable figure. so if you fit a frame to the front of a car to make it a "trailer" then the plated max laden weight of the car is the figure you need to look at. DVSA will if and when you get pulled over and weighed at the roadside. they are targeting leisure vehicles again as its a great money earner

 

[Jim et Lou]

what is kerb weight and gross weight ?

 

[old-mo]

what is kerb weight and gross weight ?

Kerb is with it sat in the road... No passengers etc..

Gross weight is what the car is with full compliment of passengers and I believe a bit of luggage...

That`s why I said it`s daft, cos you cannot tow a car on an A with passengers..

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[Jim et Lou]

Kerb is with it sat in the road... No passengers etc..

Gross weight is what the car is with full compliment of passengers and I believe a bit of luggage...

That`s why I said it`s daft, cos you cannot tow a car on an A with passengers..

Thanks Mo:thumb:

 

[pappajohn]

what is kerb weight and gross weight ?

depending on the converter iyour motorhome may not be suitable for a towbar or the towing limit may be severely restricted.

kerb weight is the car without any load but includes 75kg for a driver

Gross weight is the maximum the car can weigh including full fuel tank, passengers and luggage.

The weigh you need to use if A framing is the gross weight of the car, even if it is empty, as that is the weight the police/VOSA will use if you are roadside checked.

To determine your train weight (the total mass of car and motorhome) look at the VIN plate under the bonnet.

It should show four weights.......
1...front axle
2...rear axle
3...gross weight (could be written as GVW or MAM or GTPLM and is the maximum weight of the motorhome)
4...train weight....(maximum combined weight of car and motorhome)

 

[pappajohn]

Kerb is with it sat in the road... No passengers etc..

Gross weight is what the car is with full compliment of passengers and I believe a bit of luggage...

That`s why I said it`s daft, cos[HI] you cannot tow a car on an A with passengers..[/HI]

not as daft as it appears Mo........as the car becomes a trailer (even DVLA agree that one) theres nothing to stop you loading the car with personal effects up to its gross weight

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[Vlad The Impaler]

We normally stay on sites and find that to get around to see different places of interest difficult regarding parking and the likes. Your input is welcomed.:thumb:

Personally if it's in the Uk I use sites and get the bus,walk or bike to wherever.When we go off the beaten track in Scotland we simply have breakfast then take the van to wherever we want.I can see your point if your staying put for a long time but then again why not get a caravan?
As far as Abroad goes, I would again think about getting a caravan,or you could just hire a car when it suits.When you think of the extra fuel costs involved In towing the car here there and every where,the reduced travelling speed etc why bother!
If money were no object I'd have a big and small Mh,a caravan and car and a fifth wheel set up,that way I'd be covered for all scenarios .If I was going to stay on site for a long time I'd buy a caravan,if I wanted to have a base and still be able to tour I'd have a small van and a caravan.
Up till then I'll keep my Mh and stay as long or as short as I want and be able to move at the drop of a hat.


Vlad

 

[Jim et Lou]

Thanks Pappajon it looks very much like a no no for this laddy. Might have to look at a trike:thumb:

 

[old-mo]

Thanks Pappajon it looks very much like a no no for this laddy. Might have to look at a trike:thumb:

Dont want to put the mockers on all your thoughts about transport... but...

I`m afraid that if your thinking of a proper trike like a Rewaco/Boom or any motorbike conversion... That is fitted with rear brakes.... even with front wheel off the ground the wheels on the road must work in uniform with the Motorhome...

The only legal way you can tow a Trike is on a trailer... :thumb:

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[Jim et Lou]

Dont want to put the mockers on all your thoughts about transport... but...

I`m afraid that if your thinking of a proper trike like a Rewaco/Boom or any motorbike conversion... That is fitted with rear brakes.... even with front wheel off the ground the wheels on the road must work in uniform with the Motorhome...

The only legal way you can tow a Trike is on a trailer... :thumb:

Holy shit will I ever get find something that I can tow

 

[pappajohn]

Mo is correct of course......

Any trailer, regardless of weight, must have working brakes if brakes are fitted.

Any trailer over 750kg MUST have brakes any way, but the above relates mainly to small under 750kg trailers (which are in general unbraked).

Put simply, If brakes are fitted they must work.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

That's easy Jim ,The wife!
Get a tandem.



Vlad

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[Sheddy]

I've just returned from a two week trip in a 2.8 it'd ,covered around 2200 miles,up steep hills down into 4th or 3rd!
Can't imagine what that would feel like with a car on the back:
just out of curiosity why would you want to tow a car behind you?



Vlad

Personally we choose to tow a car, and it works for us, of course there are pros and cons but having weighed them up that is what we do.
Down hill in 3rd on 'steep' hills towing is a non starter especially the passes in Italy, Spain and France, last week we made a descent on the pass between Arezzo and Urbania ( the Bocca Trabaria ) mainly in 1st gear, with no adverse effects to both vehicles, out of interest I checked the brakes on the toad at the bottom of the descent and they were not even warm?
We use aires a lot when in France and prefer to use the remote village ones, this allows us the best of both worlds, peace and quite at night and the car ( or bikes ) to explore the local area.
Each to their own :thumb:

 

[old-mo]

Holy shit will I ever get find something that I can tow

Does seem a bit unfair, the trike thing...

Cannot see why,,,, cos you can tow an unbraked trailer up to 750KG`s...

And even my (Sold now) Rewaco FX5 family trike , didn`t weigh that much. (Unladen)... :Sad:

I have seen in my travels a few with the bracket fixed on the tow bar... thus front wheel off the ground job.. But how soon before they get pulled... ?

And a good get out clause for any insurance company... as if they need one... oh:

I think your only option would be one of these = Broken Link Removed :thumb:

 

[schojac]

Have I missed something here??

My advice is to wait until the latter end of this year as A frame towing may be a outlawed and possibly not feasible any more.

We have had many posts on A frame towing and as stated in the past it is down to personal choice. I tow a towed because it suits me and I want to and I can. Never found the need abroad as most sites and aires tend to be close to amenities. UK? hmnnnn!; that's why I have a toad "towed"

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[Jim et Lou]

Does seem a bit unfair, the trike thing...

Cannot see why,,,, cos you can tow an unbraked trailer up to 750KG`s...

And even my (Sold now) Rewaco FX5 family trike , didn`t weigh that much. (Unladen)... :Sad:

I have seen in my travels a few with the bracket fixed on the tow bar... thus front wheel off the ground job.. But how soon before they get pulled... ?

And a good get out clause for any insurance company... as if they need one... oh:

I think your only option would be one of these = Broken Link Removed :thumb:

Thats a no no as I had to sell my Vn 1500 Classic because Lou is scared to ride pillion. I lean right she leans left, you get the picture

 

[pappajohn]

Have I missed something here??

My advice is to wait until the latter end of this year as[HI] A frame towing may be a outlawed [/HI]and possibly not feasible any more.

We have had many posts on A frame towing and as stated in the past it is down to personal choice. I tow a towed because it suits me and I want to and I can. Never found the need abroad as most sites and aires tend to be close to amenities. UK? hmnnnn!; that's why I have a toad "towed"

the problem arises with the braking system, not the A frame.

From november the ruling changes to EN ECE REGULATION 13 section 5.2.2.2 which basically states:

Inertia braking will only be allowed on centre axle trailers.

Definition of centre axle trailer......

"a trailer having only a single axle or group of axles which is positioned [HI]at or close to the centre of gravity[/HI] so that, when the trailer is uniformly loaded, the static vertical load transmitted to the towing vehicle does not exceed 10 per cent of the maximum authorised weight for the axle or group of axles or 1,000kg, whichever is the less."

If A frames are not outlawed (the law relates to braking, not the A frame itself) it would mean electrically operated brakes would need to be fitted.

 

[Landy lover]

the problem arises with the braking system, not the A frame.

From november the ruling changes to EN ECE REGULATION 13 section 5.2.2.2 which basically states:

Inertia braking will only be allowed on centre axle trailers.

Definition of centre axle trailer......

"a trailer having only a single axle or group of axles which is positioned [HI]at or close to the centre of gravity[/HI] so that, when the trailer is uniformly loaded, the static vertical load transmitted to the towing vehicle does not exceed 10 per cent of the maximum authorised weight for the axle or group of axles or 1,000kg, whichever is the less."

If A frames are not outlawed (the law relates to braking, not the A frame itself) it would mean electrically operated brakes would need to be fitted.

The interesting thing then will be will it be retrospective or just to new build trailers or A frames which could put older compliant units at a premium

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[cmcardle75]

I may be wrong.... but I always thought it was the Max weight they go by...

That to me sounds daft, as you legally cannot tow a car with passengers on an "A" frame...

Hope fully some one will be along who is a bit more switched on than me...

I tow a Toyota Aygo, which is similar to your beemer,,,, But I am OK cos it is stamped in the Log Book - Max Towing/Trailer weight not to exceed 2000KG`s..

It would be daft if it was the case, however, it isn't. The maximum Gross Train Weight is the total actual weight of the unit.

So, you need to ensure:
1. The actual weight of the towing vehicle does not exceed its MAM
2. The actual weight of the trailer (i.e. car) does not exceed its MAM.
3. The total of the actual weights of the two vehicles do not exceed the towing vehicle's GTW.

Exceeding any listed maximum trailer weight listed for the towing vehicle is not explicitly illegal, although you might be prosecuted under some general law requiring you to load the vehicle safely.

This only applies to loading law. Licence law is completely different and is largely based on maximum allowed weights, not actual weight. Take an example of a fully loaded 2500kg MAM car with a 4000kg GTW towing an empty car trailer that weighs 500kg, but has a MAM of 2000kg.

For weight laws, this is legal combination, as the total actual weight of 3000kg is well within the GTW. However, despite this being under 3500kg, you would still need a B+E licence to drive it, as the maximum allowed weight is higher.

This is sensible, as there is no reason to restrict the vehicle from driving, as the weights are perfectly safe, but it is sensible to require the driver to have training, as the 2000kg MAM trailer is large, even if it doesn't weigh much unladen.