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Reverse Gear Recall

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Old 02-02-2010, 20:09   #57 (permalink)
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Hi,

We had a beautiful Swift Kon-tiki 3 litre 2007 on the Fiat Ducatto which was our ideal layout - end lounge 5 berth -drove lovely - lots of power when needed. We thought we would have this van for quite a few years. Had the scuttle done re water ingress. Although this is only a cover for the engine and some of the electrics, it doesn't completely stop the water entering the engine bay. As a resut water is deflected from the top of the engine into other areas and can then freeze and cause other problems, as previously reported on this forum.
Had a tiny bit of a judder and often wondered what other people were creating about.
The beginning of January we ended up being brought home on the back of a low loader as the engine management light came on, then went off, then came on again - loss of power- limp home mode, but we had to get up a steep hill. Took it to a Fiat garage they said it was the throttle body. Fiat said it wasn't under warranty as it was over 2 years (2 years up in Sept) but it had only done under 5000 miles. £500 to fix it.
I suspect that this could have been related to water ingress and freezing as above, but cant prove that either way.
Completely fed up with all worry of what this van might cost us in the future and want to be able to use our MH all year round, despite the weather.
Reluctantly sold our lovely motorhome. Trying to find another (new) that WASN'T on a Fiat/Peugot base is difficult to say the least - plenty of Fiats/Peugot, seem two a penny (late 2006 onwards) and cheap too. Obviously other owners getting rid as some were saying in the adverts they had them only a short while (ranging from 3 months-18 months) ( Mmm I wonder why) We are so angry and upset that we had to do this. We would buy another Swift in the future BUT NEVER WILL, until they use another base for their motorhomes.

Sorry to go on & on.
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Old 03-02-2010, 17:41   #58 (permalink)
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Seems odd that nearly all the reversing judder complaints are about the Fiat Ducato, a few about the Peugeot Boxer, but apparently none about the Citroen Relay when they are all supposed to be the same van??

Quote:
It's also worth noting that the Peugeot Boxer has also been affected by the judder virus (oddly the CitroŽn Relay, which is a sister van of the Boxer and Ducato, appears to have escaped this problem).

source: http://www.vansdirect.co.uk/content/...t-cure-judders
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:47   #59 (permalink)
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Perhaps this should be in the Citroen Forum but I have just noticed there isn't one.

Are there no commercially built motorhomes based on the Citroen Relay?

If, as it appears, the Relay is the same van as the Ducato, are motorhomes more vulnerable because of extra weight, driving on softer ground campsites (try pedalling as bike on soft ground and see how much harder it is) more reversing up chocks for levelling, or more hilly scenic roads?

Or is it to do with the driver. Does the driver of a new Fiat Ducato motorhome notice (or imagine) a slight judder that plays on his mind, that white van man in the Citroen Relay doesn't even notice?
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:00   #60 (permalink)
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Default Slight judder

I disagree with the previous poster the"slight judder" is not at all slight my whole van vibrated and i could usually make a clutch last for many 10's of thousands of miles . The sensation was exactly like trying to do 5mph. in 5th gear and do that without "slipping" the clutch the whole van shook fairly violently - as previously posted by me i sold mine with23000 on the clock and it was an excellent engine/gearbox combo. but for the reverse gear problem. I reckon mine was a breakdown waiting to happen Al
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:20   #61 (permalink)
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Thanks for the reply GIBLA53

Perhaps its something to do with the construction or use of a motorhome instead of a commercial van then?

I have a 2009 Citroen Relay 120 L4 H2 van self build conversion (are there no commercially produced motorhomes based on the Relay?) with no windows in the back (does windows make the vibration worse?) and have done 5,000 miles. It doesn't like reversing up steep hills, makes it more noisy, but I haven't noticed any judder. Reverse gear is a bit high so you have to slip the clutch to go slow, and maybe have to rev it a bit to get enough torque to reverse up a steep hill, obviously if you went a long way like that you could burn out the clutch, but if I hadn't read anything about the reverse judder on the internet I wouldn't have thought anymore about it.

Last edited by Peter James; 04-02-2010 at 08:23.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:51   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter James View Post
If, as it appears, the Relay is the same van as the Ducato, are motorhomes more vulnerable because of extra weight, driving on softer ground campsites (try pedalling as bike on soft ground and see how much harder it is) more reversing up chocks for levelling, or more hilly scenic roads?

Or is it to do with the driver. Does the driver of a new Fiat Ducato motorhome notice (or imagine) a slight judder that plays on his mind, that white van man in the Citroen Relay doesn't even notice?
Fiat advertised the base vehicle chassis, engine & gearbox as specially designed for motorhome use so they shouldn't really be saying it is anything to do with the extra weight as long as it is within their MGW.

We have met many Fiat owners (a couple were ex lorry drivers) who have had judder to some extent from slight to where reverse would only be used as a last resort.

We deliberately ruled out Fiats when we bought in 2008 as Fiat at the time were saying it wasn't a problem, as a base vehicle our Renault is superb but it is an automatic & I believe the Fiat automatic is relatively trouble free.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:51   #63 (permalink)
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One of the reasons for the judder may be the fact that the vans on the X250 chassis are almost fully laden all the time, unlike white vans. A panel van conversion also has the original X250 chassis unlike the wider, lower chassis construced specifically for motorhome manufacturers.

Once again I'll say that it's a great van to drive and my fix seems to have been quite succesful.

Rgds
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:23   #64 (permalink)
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Question Advice please

Hi All,
I'm new to motorhoming and have only had my m/h a couple of months during which time it's been laid up most of the time because of the weather (no comments please!) so I'm intruiged by the comments about the problem with reverse gear judder on Fiat x250 & problems with water ingress into the engine compartment. I've not had chance to really test mine out but I am yet to identify problems.
I have 3 questions.
1. How do I know if the mod to prevent the water problem has been done?
2. Should I contact Fiat about getting these mods done anyway, as the warranty expires at end of this month?
3. Do people think that emailing Fiat UK is the right thing to do in the first instance?

Any advice would be much appreciated!.
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